Quality

[gbaglo]

I concur.

[VictorPA]

We have had our trailer since April. We have really enjoyed using it (20 nights so far) but have been annoyed by a number of technical issues. The tank monitor that has never worked right and surely was not tested before leaving the factory. There is a faulty window that should never been installed. Also a thermostat for the furnace that was not working. All of these things should have been detected with appropriate quality control at the factory.
The local RV dealer that initially told the manufacturer that they would replace the window refused to schedule us.
The help from Escape has been mediocre at best with long silences in between emails.
With all the positive reviews on this forum we expected better but are finding enjoyment despite all this.
The amount of required troubleshooting for a new trailer is in our opinion too much.

[YakRV]

Alright. We’ve wondered about this before, but we’re getting paranoid of the “remember when” talk about the Reace and Tammy Days compared to now. We’re in line to plunk down $42+K on a trailer some time next year. Is an Escape still worth this price!!! Would Reace and Tammy still provide the almost mythical customer support with the number of units being produced today compared to “way back when?” We’ve got to confess that our alarm bells start going off with some of this talk of how it used to be compared to today. We’re starting to think we should be seriously looking elsewhere for better value. Is it nostalgia, or is it a REAL factor in TODAY’S RV buying landscape

[diannelgraham]

Originally Posted by YakRV

Alright. We’ve wondered about this before, but we’re getting paranoid of the “remember when” talk about the Reace and Tammy Days compared to now. We’re in line to plunk down $42+K on a trailer some time next year. Is an Escape still worth this price!!! Would Reace and Tammy still provide the almost mythical customer support with the number of units being produced today compared to “way back when?” We’ve got to confess that our alarm bells start going off with some of this talk of how it used to be compared to today. We’re starting to think we should be seriously looking elsewhere for better value. Is it nostalgia, or is it a REAL factor in TODAY’S RV buying landscape

I currently have a Reace and Tammy 2017 19 foot trailer. I had two major issues with my trailer right when I bought it and Reace corrected an axle and water heater issue. Did he have to do this? No it was a third party issue but the company stepped up to keep their customers happy. I also think that this much customer hand holding was part of their overload with running the company. You can’t take on the whole load of problems out of your control and keep a company running and producing product, too much manpower is diverted. I currently have a 21C on order and am I concerned about what will be could be defective in my trailer…yup. I would really like to see my trailer come with a final QC check list that escape has tested and verified beforeI take delivery. Yes I realize things break on the second use. I’m keeping my fingers crossed my new trailer is absolutely PERFECT…..

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I always remember the first time I had air conditioning in a home. The installer stated that it will only cool down the temperature differential by 10 degrees. In other words if it is 100 outside it will cool to 90 inside and you should feel cooler. This is what I expect from my unit.

A properly sized A/C should do a bit better than that. 20 degree differential at least.

[davidmurphy02]

Originally Posted by YakRV

Alright. We’ve wondered about this before, but we’re getting paranoid of the “remember when” talk about the Reace and Tammy Days compared to now. We’re in line to plunk down $42+K on a trailer some time next year. Is an Escape still worth this price!!! Would Reace and Tammy still provide the almost mythical customer support with the number of units being produced today compared to “way back when?” We’ve got to confess that our alarm bells start going off with some of this talk of how it used to be compared to today. We’re starting to think we should be seriously looking elsewhere for better value. Is it nostalgia, or is it a REAL factor in TODAY’S RV buying landscape

There is nostalgia for "the good old days" in many things. Escape is no longer a small company where you could get a trailer that was built with the designer and founder of the company still supervising daily production. They have grown past that point - things would be different even if Reace and Tammy were still running the company. But are there any other small trailer companies like Escape in "the good old days"? Fiberglass trailers are a pretty unique niche, and each of the several brands represents a good value for their price point. We live in interesting times and many things are frustrating to deal with, I'm sure all trailer manufacturers are having some of the same issues. It's up to you, after evaluating the alternatives, to decide if an Escape is still right for you. Whatever you do, hopefully you'll be out camping before too long!

[YakRV]

Thank you, David. You’re correct in all respects. We’re wishing we could have pulled the trigger on getting our first RV a couple years ago. We had an older dog then that just couldn’t travel, so we had to wait (what a very good boy he was, we miss him so much!) Dealing with the here and now, we’re just hoping that we’re making the right choices - - and, yes, we’re hoping we can get out there as soon as possible. Thank you.

[oldwave]

One could pay two times the price and get an Oliver or three times to get an airstream. I think the Oliver’s have a better qc than escape at this point. I’d get one if I could afford it. However, our 2017 has had very few issues, replaced the propane detector after 4 years and we had to replace a controller for the water heater under warranty two and a half years ago. I had a wire break on one brake drum. Etc. minor stuff. Choices are there.

[h2owmn]

From VictorPA: "All of these things should have been detected with appropriate quality control at the factory."

To my mind, this single sentence beautifully (and sadly) sums up the whole situation.

The "Reace and Tammy days" were the days of "above and beyond" service. Yes, those days are gone, and yet, they make a stark contrast to the current unsatisfactory level of QC and subsequent responsiveness. That's what makes me feel responsible to add a caveat when folks ask about/admire my Escape. It's a shame.

My opinion specifically excludes problems with appliances. Still, even as a small operation, Escape could and should be more proactive in advocating for their customers with the supplier where problems occur in brand new components. Just knowing this would go a long way with Escape owners. How much time does it take to respond in a timely manner to phone calls and emails? It's time well spent as it shows you are "on it". The customer ire would then be directed at the component manufacturers instead of divided between them AND Escape. It sure seems worth the time and "manpower" to me, but clearly, the powers that be at Escape feel differently. Again, sad.

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by sofmerc

This is the kind of real world experience I need to hear. Several people on here want me to believe the 9500 BTU ac unit by Houghton will be enough for my pending 5.0 build. I have others with smaller sq/ft that have installed the 13500 BTU in my climate that tell me i will hate myself if I don't install the 13,500 BTU unit. I live in Florida and the sun is intense (maybe not desert intense) but my mind is made up now. Thank you for that!

I recommend double insulation as well.

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by Dcboyd

Lol. Maybe it’s not a 5 season trailer. Who wants to camp in 110-115 degrees or below zero.
Most air conditioning systems are rated at 90 degrees at least in our homes. Maybe not in the desert, but who wants to go there. Not this south Texas boy. Texas is hot, not desert hot so our system is just dandy.
Real world info. For a lot of things perhaps, but certainly not for ordinary travel trailers.

I hadn't planned on camping in 109 degree temps in California. Nor was I camping in my 21C in my driveway in 115 degree heat. It was 80 degrees at my campsite, however on my way home it got hot. I had a real world "hot" experience was my point. A 13,5000 BTU AC would probably have handled it. When I make comments, I try to be positive and not make assumptions (camping in 115 degree heat) about what others are doing.

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by h2owmn

From VictorPA: "All of these things should have been detected with appropriate quality control at the factory."

To my mind, this single sentence beautifully (and sadly) sums up the whole situation.

The "Reace and Tammy days" were the days of "above and beyond" service. Yes, those days are gone, and yet, they make a stark contrast to the current unsatisfactory level of QC and subsequent responsiveness. That's what makes me feel responsible to add a caveat when folks ask about/admire my Escape. It's a shame.

My opinion specifically excludes problems with appliances. Still, even as a small operation, Escape could and should be more proactive in advocating for their customers with the supplier where problems occur in brand new components. Just knowing this would go a long way with Escape owners. How much time does it take to respond in a timely manner to phone calls and emails? It's time well spent as it shows you are "on it". The customer ire would then be directed at the component manufacturers instead of divided between them AND Escape. It sure seems worth the time and "manpower" to me, but clearly, the powers that be at Escape feel differently. Again, sad.

Hopefully Karl reads this and realizes that under HIS leadership things are not going in the right direction.

Sounds like the 2-Year Escape Warranty is as worthless as the paper it's written on.

Karl appears to be creating a new, not so good, reputation for Escape.

[Eggscape]

Originally Posted by Dwainkitchens

I have watched several videos and the quality of Escape seems really good. I have also looked at the Olivers, but since I don't plan on four season camping, I can't justify the cost.

Thanks!
Dwain

Watching trailer videos can be very informative.

I ran across this video a few weeks ago and it really made me appreciate our Escape.
https://youtu.be/8yXurTdTheQ

The finish quality of the trailer in this factory promotional video is horrific. From humps in the floor coverings, gaps in the shower between the Fiberglass and wall, unfinished rear cabinet walls, no moulding around the main door, ruff cut fiberglass openings and the wrinkled interior covering would make a Shar Pei feel right at home.

Stuff that would be very time consuming or near impossible to fix.

[sofmerc]

Originally Posted by WillyB

Hopefully Karl reads this and realizes that under HIS leadership things are not going in the right direction.

Sounds like the 2-Year Escape Warranty is as worthless as the paper it's written on.

Karl appears to be creating a new, not so good, reputation for Escape.

I think your being a bit harsh.. Its not the same company management for a reason.
You should sell your trailer now before word gets out about all the evil going on at ETI! SMH

[azjack]

The first time we were in the building hooking up the tow vehicle and I asked Reace why the water pump was still running and not pumping. He reached into his shirt pocket and pulled out a small Allen wrench and made a small adjustment to the pump and explained to me what he did. That pump was good for the next several years until I sold the trailer. I did do one adjustment on another pump. The next time I was not happy with our single door dometic fridge, I tried every thing to make it work at 100*, Reace was also trying everything to help and nothing would make it work at 100* so Reace got dometic to replace all of the original fridge with a new two door model.
We now have a 5.0 and have used it about 12 nights and everything works as it should, I did have to reread the owners manual for the maxfan to find how it should work.
AZjack

[dlakeman]

I worked in the aircraft engine manufacturing industry for years. Also as an employee of the Federal Aviation Administration, I conducted quality audits of many aircraft, aircraft engine, and parts manufacturing plants. Quality can't be "inspected in" no matter what the product. Quality has to be build into the design and that design has to be documented in manufacturing processes. Employees have to be trained to implement the manufacturing processes. One of the factories of the aircraft engine manufacturer for who I worked had over 200 production employees. There was one manager and no "quality inspectors".

I was also fortunate enough to spend a day taking a tour by the plant manager of Honda's engine manufacturing plant in Ohio. I was shown how quality is part of Honda's design, and how that design in implemented in the plant's manufacturing processes. I was shown how employees are trained, and most importantly how Honda ensures employees don't become bored by doing the same production operation for 8 hours a day. I was also shown how Honda ensures its suppliers provide quality parts. An engine leaves Honda's plant for the car manufacturing plant about every 30 seconds. None of the engines are tested, and they all work. Why? Quality is build it!

Bottom line, ETI can implement quality in their trailers if they so desire. The number of issues I found on my 21C after I took delivery last January was upsetting to me for the price I paid. The issues had nothing to do with the appliances.

[sofmerc]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

I worked in the aircraft engine manufacturing industry for years. Also as an employee of the Federal Aviation Administration, I conducted quality audits of many aircraft, aircraft engine, and parts manufacturing plants. Quality can't be "inspected in" no matter what the product. Quality has to be build into the design and that design has to be documented in manufacturing processes. Employees have to be trained to implement the manufacturing processes. One of the factories of the aircraft engine manufacturer for who I worked had over 200 production employees. There was one manager and no "quality inspectors".

I was also fortunate enough to spend a day taking a tour by the plant manager of Honda's engine manufacturing plant in Ohio. I was shown how quality is part of Honda's design, and how that design in implemented in the plant's manufacturing processes. I was shown how employees are trained, and most importantly how Honda ensures employees don't become bored by doing the same production operation for 8 hours a day. I was also shown how Honda ensures its suppliers provide quality parts. An engine leaves Honda's plant for the car manufacturing plant about every 30 seconds. None of the engines are tested, and they all work. Why? Quality is build it!

Bottom line, ETI can implement quality in their trailers if they so desire. The number of issues I found on my 21C after I took delivery last January was upsetting to me for the price I paid. The issues had nothing to do with the appliances.

So was it upsetting enough to sell your trailer and buy a Boler or airstream? Or are you satisfied enough to keep it with its warts?
It seems to me , you could get your initial investment out of it at a minimum. Waiting list is long, used market is hot

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by sofmerc

So was it upsetting enough to sell your trailer and buy a Boler or airstream? Or are you satisfied enough to keep it with its warts?
It seems to me , you could get your initial investment out of it at a minimum. Waiting list is long, used market is hot

I'm keeping it, however I'm looking around. The price of Airstreams are just nuts IMO. I can't get my initial investment because in addition to the $40K I paid ETI, I paid ~$4000 in Nevada registration/sales tax, and $699 to have it shipped to me. I've also incorporated some of Eggscape's modifications. I wasn't fortunate enough to get the parts for the prices Eggscape paid so one modification was very expensive. I haven't had any appliance issues so far. I have 3000 miles on my 21C since new. I've fixed all the issues that were ETI caused.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

I've fixed all the issues that were ETI caused.

You might want to visit Airstream forums before switching.
But, what were the ETI caused issues?

[sofmerc]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

I'm keeping it, however I'm looking around. The price of Airstreams are just nuts IMO. I can't get my initial investment because in addition to the $40K I paid ETI, I paid ~$4000 in Nevada registration/sales tax, and $699 to have it shipped to me. I've also incorporated some of Eggscape's modifications. I wasn't fortunate enough to get the parts for the prices Eggscape paid so one modification was very expensive. I haven't had any appliance issues so far. I have 3000 miles on my 21C since new. I've fixed all the issues that were ETI caused.

I bet you can get your initial investment out of it.. Why should you expect to get delivery fee and sales tax?... Its still a used trailer... But it obviously isn't what you want..