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Old 10-23-2021, 01:27 PM   #1
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Locating lithium batteries

Hello all

We weren't sure where to post this so we decided to put it here

We don't have big power needs because we don't use kitchen appliances and our fridge will be gas. Manual awning, jack etc

We're thinking of lithium batteries, and just one, with one solar panel. We figured why buy more that what we intend to use

We called Escape the other day and they told us that the batteries are stored in a box on the hitch on the 21 NE. That surprised us because in the 21 C, they are inside

Anyway they said we could locate them inside in the dinette area by rewiring later.
We intend to do this, after we get back home. It can stay upfront for the summer meanwhile

What they said however is relocating them does affect the 'balance'

Looked at the hitch weight for both trailers and they are both 366 pounds. 6 volt batteries are heavy, so replacing them with the lithium and relocating under the dinette must affect the pin weight correct? Couldn't really understand how the NE could have the same hitch weight as the C, if the batteries are upfront

We did look at a few threads where people here were discussing where to locate the lithium batteries but didn't notice anything about balancing the load

We were thinking about a storage basket on the rear bumper to store our truck tire and increase our payload, but don't want to end up with a teeter totter either

Thoughts?

Thanks very much as always
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Old 10-23-2021, 01:38 PM   #2
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Here's the thing. There's the published weights and there's real life.

Once you put your possessions in the trailer those published numbers don't mean too much. How you load the trailer will have far more effect on the balance than your proposed battery swap.

I'd say don't worry about it. Get the trailer loaded up with all the stuff you want to travel with and then do a simple tongue weighing. If it needs tweaking just move some "stuff".

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Old 10-23-2021, 01:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
We called Escape the other day and they told us that the batteries are stored in a box on the hitch on the 21 NE. That surprised us because in the 21 C, they are inside
It's more than just inside/outside it's placement. The batteries ARE inside in the 21C... in the rear dinette. The dinette in the 21NE is in front. Watch the balance...
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Old 10-23-2021, 01:46 PM   #4
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Ron thanks so much

We are probably overthinking it

We'll through everything in and move around as needed once we weigh it
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Old 10-23-2021, 01:54 PM   #5
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a full sized truck wheel is typically around 50 lbs so it shouldn't make /that/ much difference in your tongue weight.

I carry a pair of moderately heavy ebikes on the back of my 21C so its a little tongue light, I make sure anything heavy in the trailer like cases of water/beer/etc are as far forward as practical (basically under the 21C's front bed).
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Old 10-23-2021, 02:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
...

We're thinking of lithium batteries, and just one, with one solar panel. ...
A single 100 Ah lithium battery weighs around 30 pounds.

I carry more weight in extra chocolate.
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Old 10-23-2021, 03:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
Hello all

We weren't sure where to post this so we decided to put it here

We don't have big power needs because we don't use kitchen appliances and our fridge will be gas. Manual awning, jack etc

We're thinking of lithium batteries, and just one, with one solar panel. We figured why buy more that what we intend to use

We called Escape the other day and they told us that the batteries are stored in a box on the hitch on the 21 NE. That surprised us because in the 21 C, they are inside

Anyway they said we could locate them inside in the dinette area by rewiring later.
We intend to do this, after we get back home. It can stay upfront for the summer meanwhile

What they said however is relocating them does affect the 'balance'

Looked at the hitch weight for both trailers and they are both 366 pounds. 6 volt batteries are heavy, so replacing them with the lithium and relocating under the dinette must affect the pin weight correct? Couldn't really understand how the NE could have the same hitch weight as the C, if the batteries are upfront
Hitch weight is not a static thing. Any weight added in front of the front axle increases the tongue weight, any weight added behind the rear axle decreases the tongue weight. How you load your trailer has the biggest impact on tongue weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
We did look at a few threads where people here were discussing where to locate the lithium batteries but didn't notice anything about balancing the load

We were thinking about a storage basket on the rear bumper to store our truck tire and increase our payload, but don't want to end up with a teeter totter either

Thoughts?

Thanks very much as always
Given your low electric demands, I would suggest you simply do like I did. Get one solar panel with the dual 6 volt battery option. It will give you the slightly more usable amp hours than a single 100 amp hour lithium battery. It will save you a lot of money. You don't have to worry about where they are located. And, the price of lithium batteries continues to fall. In the future when you need to replace the dual 6 volt batteries you can decide if you want to go to lithium at that point.
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Old 10-23-2021, 03:14 PM   #8
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And, it seems there are issues with overwintering lithium batteries in an unheated space.
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Old 10-23-2021, 06:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
Looked at the hitch weight for both trailers and they are both 366 pounds. 6 volt batteries are heavy, so replacing them with the lithium and relocating under the dinette must affect the pin weight correct?
Yes.

Also, I wouldn't believe the published tongue weights. The probability of the two models ending up identical to the pound is very small, so that weight is probably - based on previous experience with Escape published specs - for one model and just duplicated incorrectly for the other model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
Couldn't really understand how the NE could have the same hitch weight as the C, if the batteries are upfront
There are a lot of components in the trailer, they affect balance, and some (such as the refrigerator and water heater) are not in the same place in these two models of the same size - it's not just about the battery.
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Old 10-23-2021, 06:17 PM   #10
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Thanks everyone

I guess we don't know very much about hitching and trailering. We will learn!

It sounds like the 2, normal batteries are probably going to be ample so we may just go with that, then we don't need to worry about where they're stored

Plus, it means we can use the area underneath the dinette for our beer and wine storage
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Old 10-23-2021, 06:23 PM   #11
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Brain B-P, right. That's what I was curious about. The guy we spoke to at Escape the other day did mention it will affect the balance. So we'll need to get it and see how we want to load everything.

On the positive side, today we removed the rear seat in the truck to make a massive dog bed and we gained 120 pounds. Now at least our payload will be legal
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Old 10-23-2021, 09:04 PM   #12
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This thread highlights the importance of proper tongue weight. I towed improperly loaded once and it was almost my last. As mods are made and we shift contents it is great (actually it is our responsibility) to have an idea of actual tongue weight. Weigh your trailer at a scale when ready to camp and you’ll always have a decent idea of overall weight. Then when measuring tongue you know if you are within the 10-15% range recommended.

Borrowed a scale from a buddy the other day and it is now on the list of things to get. His was a Sherline LM 1000. Anyone have others that they recommend?

https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-1.../dp/B007REJTGI
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Old 10-23-2021, 09:27 PM   #13
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On the positive side, today we removed the rear seat in the truck to make a massive dog bed and we gained 120 pounds. Now at least our payload will be legal
Thought that I was the only one who did things like that. Just after I removed them the border folks inquired why I'd removed them. "Well I tow a trailer so 70# out means 70# more carrying capacity."

In our case that area makes a great secure, readily accessible storage place for our folding ebikes.

Ron
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Old 10-24-2021, 08:06 AM   #14
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Rom that’s very funny lol

Believe it or not on the RAM forum this issue is quite an active topic

Those E bikes are also $. I would not want to be hauling them outside the trailer so that back space is ideal

I have a feeling a customs officer would look at the crew of dogs back there and get why they seat is gone
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Old 10-24-2021, 08:09 AM   #15
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Rubicon that’s a great idea
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Old 10-24-2021, 05:27 PM   #16
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Are you considering buying the optional storage box on the front of the trailer?
If so moving the battery a couple feet back and putting all your set up stuff in the box would probably more than make up for the change.
Li batteries are fine stored in the cold, it’s just charging and discharging in extreme cold is not a problem. The battery managment system in side a quality battery would prevent that from happening.
With lead acid batteries you should have venting and will need to access them to check the acid level. No need to do so with Li batteries.
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Old 10-24-2021, 05:31 PM   #17
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Yes we are definitely going with that storage box. We can put loose stuff in there which we really like

Since we live in the Yukon, we're thinking of one lithium battery stored inside the trailer, under the passenger side settee

In winter, we'll bring it inside. Being only 30 pounds that seems simplier than us bringing in a 70 pound lead acid battery, which I really do not want underfoot in our entranceway
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Old 10-24-2021, 07:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
Yes we are definitely going with that storage box. We can put loose stuff in there which we really like

Since we live in the Yukon, we're thinking of one lithium battery stored inside the trailer, under the passenger side settee

In winter, we'll bring it inside. Being only 30 pounds that seems simplier than us bringing in a 70 pound lead acid battery, which I really do not want underfoot in our entranceway
If you have s solar panel you really don't have to bring a lead acid battery inside for the winter.

A fully charged battery has a freezing point around -80 °F.
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Old 10-24-2021, 07:18 PM   #19
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Yes but we had 4 feet of snow last winter
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Old 10-24-2021, 10:37 PM   #20
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Yes but we had 4 feet of snow last winter
Was that the winter's total, or a single storm?
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