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Old 06-10-2015, 01:42 PM   #21
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Speed limit increases in BC and elsewhere

The speed limit for those towing in BC caught my eye on the list jamman posted:

"British Columbia
80 km/h (50mph) on provincial highways, and 50 km/h in populated areas, or as posted."

The BC government recently raised the posted limit to 120 km/h (75mph} on some divided highways, including parts of our local Island Highway. That creates pressure on drivers towing trailers to speed up, and not lag a few dozen mph or km/h behind the flow of traffic, much of which is actually travelling at 130 km/h, not the posted limit of 120 km/h.

This raises a few questions:
--How many trailer tires are designed to withstand extended periods at 75 mph (120 km/h), especially in hot weather?
--Should we always be driving with our trailer and TV lights on to help drivers approaching from behind gauge the speed differential?
--In wet weather, how susceptible are tow vehicle/trailer combinations to hydroplaning, the risk of which increases sharply over 85 km/h?
--Am I overthinking this?
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catchlight View Post
This raises a few questions:
--How many trailer tires are designed to withstand extended periods at 75 mph (120 km/h), especially in hot weather?
--What is the speed rating of the stock tires Escape supplies?
--In wet weather, how susceptible are tow vehicle/trailer combinations to hydroplaning, which is a big problem in the Island Highway, among others?
--Am I overthinking this?
- Not certain what brands of trailer tires are rated at 75mph, as I really just checked on my Goodyear Marathons, seeing that is what I have.
- Does Escape not use the Marathons anymore?
- I would most definitely drive an appropriate speed for road conditions like hydroplaning regardless of the tires speed rating. Saying that, I do regularly pull a bumper mount construction dump trailer around on icy winter roads, but do have to be cautious.
- I don't think you are over-thinking at all. All valid queries that need answers to set your mind at ease.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
My point being that the money being spent to create signs at rest stops to categorize rv's can also be spent posting the speed limit for towing rv's, simple solution to get the info out there.
I agree. It is common to post rules specific to a province at entrances to the province, and it makes sense even though in an ideal world it would not be necessary. For instance, Alberta allows recreational double trailers (with specific conditions) but British Columbia does not, so B.C. posts signs about this at the AB/BC border.

(So, if you tow a boat behind your Escape 5.0TA, you can't hook it up at the factory... and you need to do your research to know that.)
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:25 AM   #24
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Does Escape not use the Marathons anymore?
No, due to rising prices from Goodyear, Escape switched to Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires (another well-known ST line).
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:32 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Catchlight View Post
How many trailer tires are designed to withstand extended periods at 75 mph (120 km/h), especially in hot weather?
Probably all ST tires, since there is little if any difference between them (it's essentially a commodity business, with most brands being just distributors of tires built by other companies). Keep in mind that this speed rating only applies to tires which are loaded to a level which would be acceptable with 10 PSI less air pressure at 65 MPH, as Jim explained. If your load equals the maximum load shown on the tire sidewall, the tire can't take that at a sustained 75 mph; fortunately, Escape tires are generally large enough that they are never required to carry that maximum load.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Catchlight View Post
In wet weather, how susceptible are tow vehicle/trailer combinations to hydroplaning, the risk of which increases sharply over 85 km/h?
I wouldn't put a specific speed on hydroplaning risk, but it certainly is speed-dependent.

Wet road performance depends heavily on tire tread pattern and tire width. Trailer tires are generally not very wide for the load they are carrying, but they usually have mediocre tread patterns reminiscent of the car tires of my youth. With the challenges of controlling a vehicle with an uncontrolled joint in the middle of it (the tug-trailer combination), I consider traction loss on wet surfaces a significant consideration. To me, towing in the wet calls for a lower speed than driving in the same condition without the trailer.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:44 AM   #27
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When it comes to hydroplaning, it's the steering wheels I'm concerned about. The rest just tends to follow. Never experienced hydroplaning while towing though.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:27 AM   #28
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When it comes to hydroplaning, it's the steering wheels I'm concerned about. The rest just tends to follow. Never experienced hydroplaning while towing though.
especially in front wheel drive cars. Does anybody tow with a front wheel drive tug?
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:19 AM   #29
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especially in front wheel drive cars. Does anybody tow with a front wheel drive tug?
Hordes of us do. Most SUVs, like my Pilot, are front wheel drive.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:21 AM   #30
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Towing speed has been a subject of MUCH discussion between myself and my driver (sigh!). I find the AAA guide very confusing, especially when I take one example, Arizona, which says "may not exceed a rate of speed that causes lateral sway". When I go to the NHTSA.gov site, it specifically states that Arizona has Basic (as safe), Statutory (65 mph), and Posted speed laws. Seems that going with something as consistent as the tire recommendations makes sense ... and one which I'm going to champion. Of course, in CA, it's spelled out (55mph) but tell that to the big rig drivers on I5.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:28 AM   #31
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The tires installed on my Escape 21:
Brand: CARLISLE; Radial Trail RH, DuraTrail
Size: ST205/75R15
Load Range: “C” (1820lbs)
Max Pressure: 50psi (cold)

Some information from the CARLISE site:
Tires last longer when properly maintained and heat is the #1 killer. Heat is produced during normal towing. Towing at high speeds in hot weather and towing with under-inflated tires adds significantly to that #1 killer.

Most ST tires are rated to tow up to 65 mph and it’s a good practice not to go over 60. Tires under-inflated by 30% reduces tire life about 55%.

Tires should be kept inflated to their max pressure, (50 psi in my case) and that includes the spare. They should be checked when cold and in the shade, like in the morning. I compared my tire pressure in the morning with the afternoon. The difference was about 5 psi, or 10%, here in Western Washington. Under inflated tires will also reduce fuel efficiency up to 10%. Over inflated tires are more subject to cuts and punctures and failures due to sudden impact (like pot holes).

There is a great deal more information on their site, if anyone is interested just go there or send me a PM and I'll send you my shortened version.
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:33 PM   #32
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New Carlisle tires in our size and model are N rated - 87 mph. Faster than I care to tow.

Carlisle Radial Trail RH speed rating over 65mph - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tir...MCINT&pc=10403
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:24 PM   #33
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Sorry Jamman, I've looked multiple places and I just can't find a speed rating anywhere except for the links you've provided. There's nothing on the tires or on the Carlisle tire site, except for the 65 mph max for most ST tires and a recommendation to not tow over 60 mph.
I'll keep looking, let me know if you find any other defining information.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:51 PM   #34
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In the first link the copied communication is "signed" by Tony Coffield, who appears to be at Carlisle.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/tony-coffield/17/68/5ba
The Carlstar Group

In any event the rated 65 +10 for lightly loaded tires is good enough for me.
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Old 06-11-2015, 02:19 PM   #35
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Thanks jamman, that's the same site I got my information from. I'll have to read closer.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
When it comes to hydroplaning, it's the steering wheels I'm concerned about. The rest just tends to follow. Never experienced hydroplaning while towing though.
For the rest of the tires to follow, they need lateral traction. Imagine if your trailer tires were replaced with casters, which hold the trailer up but pivot any way the trailer wants to go - how controllable would that be? Anyone who has driven in winter conditions should be aware that the rear tires do not simply follow the front, and those who have done this with front wheel drive should realize that even without being driven the rear tires are important to maintaining directional control. I'm not suggesting towing in winter (although that is quite practical if you so desire) - it's just that ice is so much more common here and so much more severe a traction problem that it is a good illustration of the same issues raised by hydroplaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
especially in front wheel drive cars. Does anybody tow with a front wheel drive tug?
Lots of people tow with front wheel drive, although due to the availability of vehicles with adequate towing capacity it has become common to use SUVs (which tend to have various four wheel drive systems) and pickup trucks (which tend to be rear wheel drive with optional part-time four wheel drive), and so front wheel drive is not the most common. Our trailer tug is a Toyota Sienna van, which is front wheel drive. It works fine.

Most strictly front wheel drive tugs have a towing capacity of up to 3500 pounds, making them suitable and commonly used for smaller moulded fiberglass travel trailers (see FiberglassRV for examples); however, many Escape models are too heavy for that so only 17-foot and smaller Escapes (and most of those are 17-foot) are likely to have a front-wheel-drive tug.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:38 PM   #37
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Interesting... I'll believe it when I see it on a sidewall, but it sounds promising, unlike the typo on the same Discount Tire website that previously and completely incorrectly billed many Carlisle ST tires as "R" speed rated.
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