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Old 04-07-2018, 01:25 PM   #21
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Vandalism in the red rock country is an ongoing problem. We are heading to Arches for a week of hiking this month - we love the area. Here's another article from 2016 where someone carved “STATEN 2016” and “ANDERSEN 16” into rock at Frame Arch in Arches National Park.

Vandals hit Frame Arch - Moab Sun News: News

I have also seen recent "graffiti" carved into Petroglyphs and Pictographs in the American SW. Such behavior is incredibly short sighted and stupid.
Woah! Wait a second. "ANDERSEN" 16? Could this have been the same guy? If it was, he should serve time. It'd be interesting to know if he was at Arches two years ago.
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:38 PM   #22
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Woah! Wait a second. "ANDERSEN" 16? Could this have been the same guy? If it was, he should serve time. It'd be interesting to know if he was at Arches two years ago.
I thought the same thing... perhaps he is only sorry when he gets caught? But then it could also just be coincidence.
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:44 PM   #23
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Vandalism in the red rock country is an ongoing problem. We are heading to Arches for a week of hiking this month - we love the area. Here's another article from 2016 where someone carved “STATEN 2016” and “ANDERSEN 16” into rock at Frame Arch in Arches National Park.

Vandals hit Frame Arch - Moab Sun News: News

I have also seen recent "graffiti" carved into Petroglyphs and Pictographs in the American SW. Such behavior is incredibly short sighted and stupid.

We really do need to start reporting and prosecuting vandalism of this nature to the fullest extent possible and maxing out fines and public service, even max prison time in cases like this. The same goes for poachers, including those who poach wood from public lands (redwood burl poachers and 'music wood' poachers). This sort of thing makes me weep.
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:55 PM   #24
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Woah! Wait a second. "ANDERSEN" 16? Could this have been the same guy? If it was, he should serve time. It'd be interesting to know if he was at Arches two years ago.
I hope witnesses come forward so that this instance can be prosecuted, whether it was the same person(s) or not. I would not be surprised in the very least if that did turn out to be the case.

People who do this sort of thing feel they are entitled and are only 'sorry' when they get caught, weeping great big crocodile tears so that people will pat them on the head and say "It's okay, woobie, just don't do it again." Then they go off and continue to deface and destroy the heritage we are attempting to leave future generations.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:22 PM   #25
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Woah! Wait a second. "ANDERSEN" 16? Could this have been the same guy? If it was, he should serve time. It'd be interesting to know if he was at Arches two years ago.
According to a reply from the company on their facebook page a day or so ago, it's not the owner (Ryan) that did the two other incidents that are asked about on their page. Everybody that was posting was very much against what the owner did (yep, I posted there as well). For a few of comments the company replied it was done by an individual and not the company. The apology from the owner isn't at their site but at an entirely different domain.

He has a company that sells a product that is used to go out camping with. So, he's well aware of what's involved with camping. I wonder who took the photo that's posted with the articles. He claims he got caught up in the moment but when others are asking/telling you to stop, that is a pretty stupid excuse. He felt he could get away with it. And he hasn't. I hope due to all the attention it's received, the powers that be will fine both he and his wife to the maximum. She was just as involved as he was by not stopping him.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:23 PM   #26
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The same goes for poachers, including those who poach wood from public lands (redwood burl poachers and 'music wood' poachers).
Crimes I've never heard of, but since I don't collect wood I guess I'm not guilty. What is "music wood"? For that matter, what are redwood burls?
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:36 PM   #27
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Woah! Wait a second. "ANDERSEN" 16? Could this have been the same guy? If it was, he should serve time. It'd be interesting to know if he was at Arches two years ago.
Woah! What ever happened to the premise in this country that 1 is innocent until proven guilty?? Guessing there’s more than 1 Anderson out there. I’m reading that people want to punish an entire company jeopardizing people’s livings because the owner made a stupid mistake. One that he’s trying to make right. What should the punishment be for a parent who’s kid maybe Scratches his initials on a school desk? Tar and feathers? Really, must be wonderful to be such perfect and righteous individuals
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:46 PM   #28
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Woah! What ever happened to the premise in this country that 1 is innocent until proven guilty?? Guessing there’s more than 1 Anderson out there. I’m reading that people want to punish an entire company jeopardizing people’s livings because the owner made a stupid mistake. One that he’s trying to make right. What should the punishment be for a parent who’s kid maybe Scratches his initials on a school desk? Tar and feathers? Really, must be wonderful to be such perfect and righteous individuals
Reading comprehension is important. The words "could this have been" and "if it was" indicate doubt and questioning, not a presumption of guilt. And, you're misapplying the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty'. That's a legal term used in the legal system, not in the court of public opinion. The judicial system may have to prove a person's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but society is under no such constraints. I'll ignore the silly comparison between defacing a national park and scribbling on a desk.

But, if it makes you feel better to think I'm sanctimonious, rock on.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:35 PM   #29
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🤔 I read the Anderson reply, couple of times. Then I read a bunch of comments people put on their site. Most of which being he’s not sorry enough or let’s show him by maybe putting his company out of business, everyone working for him I guess would just be collateral damage.The guy said he’s sorry, is willing to pay to restore the damage and open to any thing that is suggested by park service. What would the “court of public opinion “ feel an appropriate punishment be? What does he do or be “sorry enough”?
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:38 PM   #30
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It's Andersen, not Anderson.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:51 PM   #31
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It's Andersen, not Anderson.
Yeah, that's definitely helpful. Andersen Hitches has been in business for 50 years according to their website so that means Jr. has really pissed off his dad if he is still alive. Lot of boneheads out there and this guy will never live it down. Maybe he will use this experience to help other bonies to resist the temptation.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:52 PM   #32
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I'm sorry to me means "I'm sorry I got caught" and saying you'll do things to make it right after you've been caught doesn't mean much to me either.

What's really disappointing and a bit of a shock is that it wasn't just a teenager being a dumb teenager. It really does fit the term "he should have known better."

We were at Red Rock Canyon S.P. a few weeks ago. I loved exploring the arroyos but I had almost a dread that I was going to turn a corner and find graffiti carved into the soft stone. I was happy to see how undamaged the area was, hope it stays that way.

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Old 04-07-2018, 09:53 PM   #33
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I read the Anderson reply, couple of times. Then I read a bunch of comments people put on their site. Most of which being he’s not sorry enough or let’s show him by maybe putting his company out of business, everyone working for him I guess would just be collateral damage.The guy said he’s sorry, is willing to pay to restore the damage and open to any thing that is suggested by park service. What would the “court of public opinion “ feel an appropriate punishment be? What does he do or be “sorry enough”?
I'm actually with you on that. If he makes it right, and becomes a better person by it all, that's great. I'm the first to forgive if a person truly wants to make up for it, and isn't just doing it because of bad PR. The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:49 AM   #34
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I'm actually with you on that. If he makes it right, and becomes a better person by it all, that's great. I'm the first to forgive if a person truly wants to make up for it, and isn't just doing it because of bad PR. The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding.

I can go along with that.

Plus I might need his 5th hitch at some point and I would hate to support some one who vandalized public treasures.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:10 AM   #35
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:28 AM   #36
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I hope Mr Andersen get's the proper punishment he so richly deserves but I doubt it will be anywhere near that level.
IE ; A $5000 or $10,000 fine for most is financially devastating but for some it just means one less trip to Europe and is hardly a deterrent .
In this case I have little faith in our justice system to fairly punish the offender !
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:54 AM   #37
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I hope Mr Andersen get's the proper punishment he so richly deserves but I doubt it will be anywhere near that level.
IE ; A $5000 or $10,000 fine for most is financially devastating but for some it just means one less trip to Europe and is hardly a deterrent .
In this case I have little faith in our justice system to fairly punish the offender !
You may appreciate this method for calculating some fines in Finland:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:55 AM   #38
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I hope Mr Andersen get's the proper punishment he so richly deserves but I doubt it will be anywhere near that level.
IE ; A $5000 or $10,000 fine for most is financially devastating but for some it just means one less trip to Europe and is hardly a deterrent .
In this case I have little faith in our justice system to fairly punish the offender !
After spending well over 30 career years as a steward of public property including unique monuments, structures and landforms, and having experienced vandalism in just about every conceivable form, I have absolutely no time for vandals. I believe that these senseless acts should be punished to limit of the law. Voting with my dollars, I will never purchase an Anderson hitch or recommend one to anybody for the rest of my life.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:59 AM   #39
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So appropriate punishment for some would mean financial devastation? 🤔
Am I the only one who thinks that's a little harsh for the crime?
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:00 AM   #40
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Hi: SandBuzzard... At one point I'd entertained the thought of switching to Andersen to lighten the load!!! Back to the drawing board!!!
At the risque of being "Pull it a call"...What penalty should the "Twitter in Chief" get for defacing the entire country? Alf
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