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Old 07-05-2015, 09:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
A properly configured version of the new aluminum F-150 seems to have a much higher capacity and is the only half-ton recommended to to tow a typical fifth wheel up to to almost 12,000 lbs.
When properly equipped, a 2015 F150 can tow up to 9100 lbs. Our 2WD / 5.5 Bed / 2.7L Ecoboost / Tow Package can do 8100. 12000 is way over the max.

But, take your typical 5th wheel that weighs less, let's say in the 9000 lb range. About 25% of that will be weight on the pin, which means the back is holding up 2250 lbs -- and that's too much. In the 5.0TA, its less than 20%, and that's 20% of a MUCH lighter trailer. The weight on the pin would be around 600 lbs. Well within the capacities for a half ton truck.
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Old 07-05-2015, 11:47 PM   #42
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An F-150 with the 3.5 L ecoboost can tow up to 12,000 lbs when properly configured. Here's info from Ford:

2015 Ford F-150 | View Towing Specifications | Ford.com

600 lbs is the dry pin weight. Once loaded down, that may vary depending on how much weight is added and where in the trailer that weight is... Has anyone determined what the pin weight is for the trailer with full tanks and some cargo?

Also, the calculator I linked allows you to adjust the percentage of weight on the pin. The vehicles max allowed GCWR and GVWR are important for properly figuring things out.

RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator

But you are right the default calculations done at the following page assumed a 20% of the weight on the pin. If you moved that down to 16% or 17% and recalculated then some of the maximum safe fifth wheel weights may go up. But the default calculations also assumed a stripped down pickup truck with very light passenger and vehicle cargo. So that may bring your recalculation max back down.

How Much Can A Half-ton Truck Tow Without Exceeding Ratings?
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:05 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
A properly configured F-150 with the 3.5 L ecoboost can tow up to 12,000 lbs when properly configured. Here's info from Ford:

2015 Ford F-150 | View Towing Specifications | Ford.com

600 lbs is the dry pin weight. Once loaded down, that may vary depending on how much weight is added and where in the trailer that weight is... Has anyone determined what the pin weight is for the trailer with full tanks and some cargo?

Also, the calculator I linked allows you to adjust the percentage of weight on the pin. The vehicles max allowed GCWR and GVWR are important for properly figuring things out.

RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator

But you are right the default calculations done at the following page assumed a 20% of the weight on the pin. If you moved that down to 16% or 17% and recalculated then some of the maximum safe fifth wheel weights may go up. But the default calculations also assumed a stripped down pickup truck with very light passenger and vehicle cargo. So that may bring your recalculation max back down.

How Much Can A Half-ton Truck Tow Without Exceeding Ratings?
Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, with the 141.1" wheelbase, the highest ratio axle, and the heavy duty payload package, it goes up to 12100. That's an impressive max trailer weight for a "1/2 Ton" truck.

Even loaded though, if a midsize truck can handle the 5.0TA, a full size truck can too.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:32 AM   #44
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After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR. And as the website says, "One's ability to tow a fifth wheel doesn't prove exceeding the ratings is okay."
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:51 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR. And as the website says, "One's ability to tow a fifth wheel doesn't prove exceeding the ratings is okay."
True, and many (like Nissan for example) make it difficult if not impossible to get the GCWR. They don't publish one on the website, although it might be on the FMVSS placard.
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR. And as the website says, "One's ability to tow a fifth wheel doesn't prove exceeding the ratings is okay."
My full size 1/2 ton pickup has a listed towing capacity of 10,250 lbs
a payload capacity of 1430 lbs and a GVWR of 6800 lbs . My Casita 17ft Deluxe
weighs 3300 lbs with a tongue weight of 350 lbs. The combined weight of my vehicle's curb weight ,vehicle options ,passengers, cargo , trailer tongue weight and truck toppers brings my total gross weight right up against my vehicles GVWR & RAWR.
If I wanted to tow an Escape 5.0 TA with my present truck , stay within its stated limits, and assuming a pin weight of 6 to 700 lbs. I would have to reduce my cargo weight or leave my wife and the dog at home.
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
My full size 1/2 ton pickup has a listed towing capacity of 10,250 lbs
a payload capacity of 1430 lbs and a GVWR of 6800 lbs . My Casita 17ft Deluxe
weighs 3300 lbs with a tongue weight of 350 lbs. The combined weight of my vehicle's curb weight ,vehicle options ,passengers, cargo , trailer tongue weight and truck toppers brings my total gross weight right up against my vehicles GVWR & RAWR.
If I wanted to tow an Escape 5.0 TA with my present truck , stay within its stated limits, and assuming a pin weight of 6 to 700 lbs. I would have to reduce my cargo weight or leave my wife and the dog at home.
Hi: steve dunham... Cargo...that's the "Slim fast plan". Passengers are always optional. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:57 PM   #48
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Okay, so the new Chevy and GMC mid-size trucks have the highest towing and payload capacities for the category. I’ve run the GMC Canyon 4X2 Crew Cab with long bed through the RV Tow Check 2.0 Calculator.

RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator

Here are the inputs:

Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR): 12,000 lbs

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 5,800 lbs

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW): 4,200 lbs (curb weight of base model with no options)

Fifth wheel hitch: Yes

Pin weight percentage: 16%

Driver weight: 230 lbs

Additional vehicle add ons, cargo, passenger weight: 200 lbs


These inputs give me a maximum allowed fifth wheel weight of 6,062 lbs. This is more than enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA weighing in at 5,500 lbs.

However, the results are very sensitive to additional cargo weight or weight distribution!

If only 300 lbs of additional cargo, passenger, or vehicle options are added to the truck, then the max 5th wheel weight drops to 4,187 lbs. Which isn’t enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA.

If, on top of the additional weight, the distribution in the trailer causes 17% of the weight on the pin; then the max allowed 5th wheel is only 3,941 lbs.

Add another 200 lbs of weight to the truck and the max allowed 5th wheel drops to 2,764 lbs. Not even close to enough to tow a completely empty barebones 5.0 TA weighing 3,700 lbs.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:01 PM   #49
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Hi: steve dunham... Cargo...that's the "Slim fast plan". Passengers are always optional. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:17 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
Okay, so the new Chevy and GMC mid-size trucks have the highest towing and payload capacities for the category. Iíve run the GMC Canyon 4X2 Crew Cab with long bed through the RV Tow Check 2.0 Calculator.

RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator

Here are the inputs:

Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR): 12,000 lbs

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 5,800 lbs

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW): 4,200 lbs (curb weight of base model with no options)

Fifth wheel hitch: Yes

Pin weight percentage: 16%

Driver weight: 230 lbs

Additional vehicle add ons, cargo, passenger weight: 200 lbs


These inputs give me a maximum allowed fifth wheel weight of 6,062 lbs. This is more than enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA weighing in at 5,500 lbs.

However, the results are very sensitive to additional cargo weight or weight distribution!

If only 300 lbs of additional cargo, passenger, or vehicle options are added to the truck, then the max 5th wheel weight drops to 4,187 lbs. Which isnít enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA.

If, on top of the additional weight, the distribution in the trailer causes 17% of the weight on the pin; then the max allowed 5th wheel is only 3,941 lbs.

Add another 200 lbs of weight to the truck and the max allowed 5th wheel drops to 2,764 lbs. Not even close to enough to tow a completely empty barebones 5.0 TA weighing 3,700 lbs.
Don't forget that you also have to make allowance for the weight of the
5th wheel hitch which is approx 150lbs.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Don't forget that you also have to make allowance for the weight of the
5th wheel hitch which is approx 150lbs.
I checked that box on the calculator so that's already included in the calculations. I'm not sure what weight they use but it's probably on the heavy side to be safe.
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:03 PM   #52
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I checked that box on the calculator so that's already included in the calculations. I'm not sure what weight they use but it's probably on the heavy side to be safe.
Hi: yogiyoda... I believe the 5.0TA pin weight also includes 2 full propane tanks. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:53 PM   #53
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Hi: yogiyoda... I believe the 5.0TA pin weight also includes 2 full propane tanks. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
Do you mean the 600 lb "Dry hitch weight" already includes full propane tanks?
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:06 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR.
It's easy to exceed limits, but in forum discussions we've run the numbers for a few members' rigs and it can be done. GVWR seems to be the most problematic limit, even with the larger conventional trailers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
True, and many (like Nissan for example) make it difficult if not impossible to get the GCWR. They don't publish one on the website, although it might be on the FMVSS placard.
It's usually not a problem for trucks, but it is hard to find for many vehicles. On the other hand, I've never seen GCWR on a placard... probably because it isn't a legally enforced limit so there's federal requirement to put in on the placard. Both GAWR and the GVWR will be on the placard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
Hi: yogiyoda... I believe the 5.0TA pin weight also includes 2 full propane tanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
Do you mean the 600 lb "Dry hitch weight" already includes full propane tanks?
That seems unlikely to me. "Dry" means without fluids, after all.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:17 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by yogiyoda View Post
... These inputs give me a maximum allowed fifth wheel weight of 6,062 lbs. This is more than enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA weighing in at 5,500 lbs.

However, the results are very sensitive to additional cargo weight or weight distribution!

If only 300 lbs of additional cargo, passenger, or vehicle options are added to the truck, then the max 5th wheel weight drops to 4,187 lbs. Which isnít enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA.

If, on top of the additional weight, the distribution in the trailer causes 17% of the weight on the pin; then the max allowed 5th wheel is only 3,941 lbs.

Add another 200 lbs of weight to the truck and the max allowed 5th wheel drops to 2,764 lbs.
This is a good explanation of why it makes sense to shoot for much lower pin weight, since that's the problem (rather than gross trailer weight).

It also emphasizes the importance for larger trailers, and especially for fifth-wheels, of choosing options carefully and including packages which increase payload.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:23 AM   #56
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....and realizing if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:59 AM   #57
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Do you mean the 600 lb "Dry hitch weight" already includes full propane tanks?
Hi: yogiyoda... Ask Reace...He should know. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:05 AM   #58
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If interested, my 5.0TA pin weight was 728 lbs returning from a trip, propane pretty much full, all holding tanks roughly half. The black and grey tanks are in front of the axles, fresh is behind, wouldn't be hard to get the pin heavier then I had.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:45 AM   #59
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What was the weight of your trailer over the axles, Bob?
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:58 AM   #60
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If interested, my 5.0TA pin weight was 728 lbs returning from a trip, propane pretty much full, all holding tanks roughly half. The black and grey tanks are in front of the axles, fresh is behind, wouldn't be hard to get the pin heavier then I had.
Thank you for posting your actual pin weight . I had a feeling that the dry pin weight of 600 lbs posted by Escape would be a little low . Our friends new 34ft "LIGHTWEIGHT " fifth wheel trailer has a pin weight approaching 30% and he is over the GVWR for his 3/4 ton diesel truck
I admire this forum for its rational and logical discussion of tow vehicles . Many times on other forums logic never enters the picture and people end up believing they can tow
their 19ft, 4000lb trailer with a Mini Cooper
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