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Old 02-21-2023, 07:28 PM   #41
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I think the RV market in general is kind of nuts right now, based on what we sold our 50k mile Rpod for and what potential buyers were telling us about the sticker shock at RV dealerships. I suspect Escape prices will continue to go up and the used market will follow just like the rest of the market.

As for the F150, in November we walked into the dealership, picked out one that had everything we wanted and drove it home that day. The new truck gods must have been smiling on us because I have heard from a couple of folks who are truck shopping that there is a 1-3 month wait for an F150, Silverados, Rams, etc.
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:39 PM   #42
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All this talk of recession has scared off most commercial construction activity, at least around here (although residential construction is still going strong), which of course is the very thing that causes a recession. So while there is no reason to expect new prices to come down when material and labor costs are still going up, if the waiting list goes away entirely there might be some discounts cutting into profits, but there is only so much of that that can happen before a manufacturer shuts down entirely.
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Old 02-21-2023, 08:27 PM   #43
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I’m not making any predictions. I would not be right. My read on things is by my own admission, too overthought to be right.
I thought the pandemic would kill RV sales. I didn’t know anything about the complexity of container shipping. Didn’t see the run up coming in inflation so most of the time I’m not good at predictions. I’m ok at understanding what happened when someone explains it to me. 😏
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Old 02-22-2023, 08:56 AM   #44
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Assuming there are still a decent number of folks interested in Escapes, is it possible that the shortened wait times have occurred because folks backed out of buying a new one because of the price increases, and instead are looking at purchasing used? If demand for used Escapes increases (or at least stays the same), wouldn’t the prices of used remain strong?
In this secnario you are correct. I am also wondering about the age demographic and wonder how this will play into it. I have had motorcycles of all kinds throughout my life as well as numerous campers and have witnessed the cyclic nature as markets change.

At 63 yrs old I have witnessed the discontiunation of the GWRRA, the HOG membership decline, local Scamp rallys falling to the wayside. For Harley's in 1985, an owner's average age was 27. The average age increased to 41 by 2003, and 50 by 2008. As with the Escape trailers the prices shot sky high.

When we look at the age of the posters here in the Escape forum, we would be challenged to find a large or heck even 20% of the forum members below the age of 35. A lot of these younger genertions are hard pressed to afford daily living expenses.

We will see if the oncoming downturn in the economy finally depletes the governments artifical stimulus spending of trillions of dollars that provided consumers with so much money (subsidies and transfer payments, or easy access to credit via a low cost of borrowing) where the demand grews too fast for production to keep up. It was the classic too many dollars chasing too few of goods.

In regard to the used trailer pricing, used trailers command near the price of new although they may have outdated technology. New trailers are coming with solar & lithium batteries where as used may not, new will be 2 way refrigerators, possibly acrylic windows.

My wife and I went for a 500 mile drive this past weekend from Lacrosse to Kenosha and back. We were commenting on the RV inventory "packed" on the lots. With inflation and a softening in new sales I might imagine the RV market may tank. If it does the used market will certainly follow. I recall times in the 80's with sky high interest rates, you almost had to give away anything you were trying to sell.

Time will tell.
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Old 02-22-2023, 09:00 AM   #45
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Assuming there are still a decent number of folks interested in Escapes, is it possible that the shortened wait times have occurred because folks backed out of buying a new one because of the price increases, and instead are looking at purchasing used? If demand for used Escapes increases (or at least stays the same), wouldn’t the prices of used remain strong?
Many cancel because of: economic uncertainty and the sticker shock of new and used prices. Many will sell as they go back to a more normal life. I predict both new and used prices fall a bit or stay steady - the inflation is done on recreational goods as supply is overtaking demand.
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Old 02-22-2023, 09:19 AM   #46
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Many cancel because of: economic uncertainty and the sticker shock of new and used prices. Many will sell as they go back to a more normal life. I predict both new and used prices fall a bit or stay steady - the inflation is done on recreational goods as supply is overtaking demand.
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Old 02-22-2023, 09:25 AM   #47
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I heard a local RV dealership's tv ad this morning: "We are overstocked! Huge discounts!" Marketing.
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Old 02-22-2023, 10:00 AM   #48
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RV manufacturers were caught with low inventory during Covid when demand soared and now they are all overstocked because they over-estimated continued demand.

It's the same thing that happens with any commodity when there is a shortage.

One thing for sure, there is no shortage of people *camping* in RV's. Getting a camping spot is more difficult every year because of the huge number of people with RV's. The real need is more parks with RV camping

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Old 02-22-2023, 10:33 AM   #49
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In regard to the used trailer pricing, used trailers command near the price of new although they may have outdated technology. New trailers are coming with solar & lithium batteries where as used may not, new will be 2 way refrigerators, possibly acrylic windows.
Not really, they have changed some of the options you can get but the trailers are the same, as are most of the appliances. The big ones are the lithium batteries, and the compressor frig, and choice of AC units.
However if we were to buy our trailer today instead of 2018 when we did we wouldn't get the lithium option or the compressor frig.

There are a lot more choices of upholstery, flooring, and counter tops. so we would have picked from the available choices instead of going custom upholstery, flooring and formica. Other than that we would still buy the same trailer as we did in 2018. We would have got the second solar panel but that was an option in 2018 as well.
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Old 02-22-2023, 11:48 AM   #50
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In my humble opinion. There is a multitude of circumstances that will make used RV prices drop.

1) The baby boomer retirement population hump is now going down!!! Less population retiring means less buyers.
2) Covid19 made more people retire early and buy a new RV so there will be less buyers in the coming years due to this overlap.
3) Covid19 made young people buy an RV. They no longer want an RV because they can now do indoor activities. This will increase the market majority.
4) Covid19 increased the prices of RVs due to supply issues making RVs unavailable to some buyers.
5) Covid19 inflated the prices due to RV availability.
6) Pre-Covid19 someone did not expect their RV to hold the same or near value 5 years later.
7) The newer generations do not have the savings or pensions the baby boomers have accumulated.
8) A lot of the newer generations don’t have the mechanical skills that it takes to upkeep an older RV so they buy new or none at all.
9) A bank loan on an RV is hard to achieve at this moment due to the above circumstances. Banks know the auto and RV market.
10) Bank loan interests are high.

Savior: Escape RVs are higher in price so it leans towards people who are more affluent. This takes numbers 3, 8 and 9 out of the above review.

Please criticize my thoughts. I have been bouncing these questions and answers around in my head and it feels good to get them out. J Also add to the list!!
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Old 02-22-2023, 12:50 PM   #51
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I had mentioned that we did not see all that much activity of trailers moving in and out of the storage lot near us except in the three big summer weekends.

My dad used to say all the time “I wish I had a dollar for every time ……..” So I “dream” that way too at times . Even though most RVs are at the upper end of the “toy” scale I think they often quickly fall by the wayside as a recreational activity like many other things.

I wish I had a dollar for “every RV that that was parked in a lot for all but three weekends and a one week vacation each year. A bass boat, a classic restored car in the garage with a cover on it, a pool table, a hot tub, a home swimming pool, ping pong table, snowmobile, cross country or downhill skis, and a whole plethora of “had to haves, always wanted one, can always get my money back, used to really be into it etc etc. toys.

The calendar pages fall off, seasons come and go, and the beloved toy becomes “suppose
I ought to sell it, hate paying insurance and license on it, thought the kids would want it, needs some new tires even though the 10 year old ones look like new, kids don’t want to go out, just spend time with their friends, need room for the new……. I’m thinking about getting.”

Anyone need a good ice auger, vintage Shakespeare Wondereel. Minnow trap You get the idea.
But we’re gonna try real hard to get out more this year.
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Old 02-22-2023, 01:12 PM   #52
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A bust dropped prices in the past

Back, way back in 2009, I received promotional material from Casita trailer. They had dropped their prices quite a bit. I seem to recall a 17'er was offered for around $13,000. They wanted to move product to keep employees busy.

I don't know what they go for now, but the Great Recession was good to folks that had the money to buy a Casita.

As I am fond of saying, "predictions are hard to make.....especially about the future". And I'll make none, but I've got to guess that used RV's will become available. Pricing? I don't know.

I've heard the Covid puppy boom is a bust, with shelters full.

Boom, bust. That's economics, 1.0.
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Old 02-22-2023, 01:34 PM   #53
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I was just thinking about the Economics courses I took in college.

In the Mid 70s I got funding for two new heavy truck chassis. One for a bucket truck (High Ranger) and one for a grapple log loader. (Prentiss GRMT)
It didn’t matter how hard you looked, there were no truck chassis available for several months in the Omaha area. That’s when I first figured out that pure supply and demand was either a myth or that there was a built in wait time that I hadn’t learned about in school.

Over the 50 years about every Economics 101 concept I was taught has proven to be fallible at times. With ups and downs of everyday living and the “global” economy, I kind of wonder how they teach economics now. Doesn’t seem like an $8.00 for a hard bound Econ book would be of much value.

My personal economic theory is buy some, save some, don’t buy any green bananas and eat your desert first. Oh and buy good beer and good whisky but don’t go overboard. I know my taste buds are not good enough to appreciate the real expensive stuff and I’m probably to tight to buy it anyhow. And that especially goes for Fireball whiskey lapped from a plastic platter.
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Old 02-22-2023, 01:55 PM   #54
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Back, way back in 2009, I received promotional material from Casita trailer. They had dropped their prices quite a bit. I seem to recall a 17'er was offered for around $13,000. They wanted to move product to keep employees busy.

I don't know what they go for now, but the Great Recession was good to folks that had the money to buy a Casita.

As I am fond of saying, "predictions are hard to make.....especially about the future". And I'll make none, but I've got to guess that used RV's will become available. Pricing? I don't know.

I've heard the Covid puppy boom is a bust, with shelters full.

Boom, bust. That's economics, 1.0.
casita now $32,674 for deluxe model All the 2023 have been sold so that's 2024 prices. Most models have a lead time of about 11 to 12 months. The Independence model takes about 15 to 16 months. when covid hit I decided to list my casita for sale at the time it looked like RV prices would Be dropping. We had the escape already ordered. wish I waited a few months. I did buy the escape at right price.
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Old 02-22-2023, 02:15 PM   #55
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I think this is a classic case of supply and demand. Escape has raised the price to the point that supply meets demand at a price point where they have a 3 or 4 month backlog. In the process they maximize their profit. Two years worth of orders not fulfilled earns them no profit. Basic economics. Unfortunately we the consumer lose out. The 23 with no dry bath that will be $60 or $70 thousand no longer makes any sense. Plan on taking good care of my 21' and making it last.
Fortunately unlike a sticky, my 21' will probably last as long as I do.
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Old 02-22-2023, 02:19 PM   #56
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casita now $32,674 for deluxe model All the 2023 have been sold so that's 2024 prices. Most models have a lead time of about 11 to 12 months. The Independence model takes about 15 to 16 months. when covid hit I decided to list my casita for sale at the time it looked like RV prices would Be dropping. We had the escape already ordered. wish I waited a few months. I did buy the escape at right price.
My 2013 loaded Casita was about $17 as I remember. About double in 10 years.
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Old 02-22-2023, 03:46 PM   #57
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I also think that most Escape trailers will outlive their “camping” usability.

I think with the knowledge and products we have today that many of the Escapes as well as they are made will last for 30 to 50 more years from now. I am not sure that people (like my daughter or granddaughter) will have the means or want to tow a vehicle of that size. In fact my daughter today only wants to tow a teardrop size trailer and enjoys it immensely. I am sure fuel, vehicle restrictions or having to drive a big vehicle every day will play a big part in what a used Escape is worth in the distant future.

I see it more likely that my granddaughter”s future children/child will need it to live in if housing prices keep rising.
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Old 02-22-2023, 05:49 PM   #58
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Let's see now

I had a 1996 Casita, 16' Liberty. Bought in 2009. It's still in good condition and passed on to a neighbor. By my ciphering, that's 27 years old. Fiberglass lasts. Sticky's fade away.
And so it goes.
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Old 02-22-2023, 06:45 PM   #59
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I see it more likely that my granddaughter”s future children/child will need it to live in if housing prices keep rising.
I see it as choices, your family will be fine if they make proper choices. For those who have these strange ideas of reality we currently are witnessing life is going to be hard. Seems society is hellbent on self destruction, the good thing about this happening is hard times can bring peoples priorities back in line. Grown men playing video games into the night neglecting their family, on and on.

Escape hasn’t been raising their prices to be greedy mean people, they as all have been affected by this wild inflation. There are plenty of things I can’t afford, it took me years and years to be in a situation where I could purchase an Escape without upsetting my apple cart. For those who can’t handle buying an Escape there are many other choices. Build up to one, they are fantastic.

I heard there was this pregnant mother who was singing and acting up during the Super Bowl, I didn’t see it or most any other sports in many years.

What you put your mind to is what results you will get.
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Old 02-22-2023, 06:56 PM   #60
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I see it as choices, your family will be fine if they make proper choices. For those who have these strange ideas of reality we currently are witnessing life is going to be hard. Seems society is hellbent on self destruction, the good thing about this happening is hard times can bring peoples priorities back in line. Grown men playing video games into the night neglecting their family, on and on.
I'm not sure what this means, but for sure there are parts of the country where housing prices are not affordable. My daughter makes a six-figure income in southern CA and to her the idea of buying a house is completely implausible.

Maybe this is just an impact of the demographics with the Boomers, but it seems impossible to sustain.

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I heard there was this pregnant mother who was singing and acting up during the Super Bowl, I didn’t see it or most any other sports in many years.
I'm not sure what this part is about, but if I get the reference that pregnant lady's net worth is a large multiple of mine. So I guess it's working for her?


There was certainly nothing scandalous about Rihanna's performance in this year's Superbowl. You can like it or not, but it was just a show.
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