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Old 11-07-2020, 09:41 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Where else do the leaks start?
The long upper rear taillights warp and allow water penetration. Total design flaw that ETI should have fixed with replacements (like Alf got)vs. just sending a tube of Proflex. I'm at the point now after 3 applications of either stripping off the layers & re-caulking, buying new same style that will just warp again or doing what Alf had done. The last approach is the best yet will probably cost $500-$1,000 to pay someone to do it right.
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Old 11-07-2020, 09:46 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I'm not saying they can not leak, but with proper maintenance, they should not. We only have but maybe 2 roof vents, a refer vent and the a/c and Maxxfan openings to contend with. Where else do the leaks start?
I'm thinking more windows than the roof.

The Hehr frameless had some production issues that required window replacement to fix. Lippert seems to be much better at building the windows and I haven't heard of near as many issues since they took over.

The framed windows sometime "leak" if the drain holes are not kept clear. More of a maintenance issue than design but still will cause water to enter the trailer.

Roof leaks are extremely rare and usually a caulking issue rather than the roof itself.
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Old 11-07-2020, 09:48 AM   #63
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I believe the new mold in 2016 changed those lights and eliminated that problem....
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Old 11-07-2020, 11:06 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I believe the new mold in 2016 changed those lights and eliminated that problem....
Jim they were changed even before the new mold, likely not long after the problem developed. Our classic built Sept. 2016 last of the old style has the newer style lights, not those subject to leaking.

My only leak was shortly after getting it home in 2018 leaking on the bed from the antenna. I went to the roof with Proflex and sealed it, no problem since.
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Old 11-07-2020, 03:04 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
But yours was a used Escape correct, perhaps that is why it was sold? Having owned 4 new Escapes, none of mine have developed any leaks.
All three leaks were due to improper caulking / sealing by Escape
When I repaired the leaks I discovered that there was large gaps in the factory caulk
IE ; The furnace exterior exhaust plate was only partially caulked on the top and the leading edge . On the roof there was a roof penetration that was only about 80% caulked
I spend a whole day repairing the caulk joints on the roof and cleaning off smeared / drips / globs of caulk that were left everywhere by the factory
I believe you when you say you’ve had no leaks and I expect the same courtesy when I say that I have had several.
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:56 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
All three leaks were due to improper caulking / sealing by Escape
When I repaired the leaks I discovered that there was large gaps in the factory caulk
IE ; The furnace exterior exhaust plate was only partially caulked on the top and the leading edge . On the roof there was a roof penetration that was only about 80% caulked
I spend a whole day repairing the caulk joints on the roof and cleaning off smeared / drips / globs of caulk that were left everywhere by the factory
I believe you when you say youíve had no leaks and I expect the same courtesy when I say that I have had several.
Jim did not dispute your leaks experience but related that his three escapes had no leaks. Iím not sure what your point is except your unhappy with your particular trailer. No production line is perfect, however in general we all know fiberglass trailers are less prone to leaks .
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Old 11-07-2020, 09:35 PM   #67
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The original topic.

"23 but $40,000, cough cough."

The single axle Casita 17' Deluxe model has a base price of $24,694. With an assortment of popular options $30,000 could be easily reached.
The Bigfoot 25' model well optioned, comes to just under $53,000.

Seems to me that something in the $40,000 range for an Escape 23' is a pretty reasonable number given the fiberglass competition.

Waiting on the drawing for the 23'

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Old 11-07-2020, 10:04 PM   #68
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but related that his three escapes had no leaks.

however in general we all know fiberglass trailers are less prone to leaks .
Neither have my two Escapes and I live in a rain forest.

I think also, the major point is that, unlike a stickie, a leak would be an easily corrected nuisance, not a path to rot in the structure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EdColorado View Post
The original topic.

"23 but $40,000, cough cough."

The single axle Casita 17' Deluxe model has a base price of $24,694.

Ed
Well that puts it in perspective, there's a vast gulf between the two in the amount of trailer you'd get.

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Old 11-08-2020, 07:01 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdColorado View Post
The original topic.

"23 but $40,000, cough cough."

The single axle Casita 17' Deluxe model has a base price of $24,694. With an assortment of popular options $30,000 could be easily reached.
The Bigfoot 25' model well optioned, comes to just under $53,000.

Seems to me that something in the $40,000 range for an Escape 23' is a pretty reasonable number given the fiberglass competition.

Waiting on the drawing for the 23'

Ed
Agree, that's the market right now. I understand not wanting to drop $40K on a trailer. But any business is going to price them at market, and $40K is about it, probably a tad low. The choice is to go with something else, typically smaller or traditionally built.

Seems like it was just a few years ago a Casita Deluxe was $17,000. Those were the days.
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Old 11-08-2020, 07:22 AM   #70
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.... Seems like it was just a few years ago a Casita Deluxe was $17,000. Those were the days.
$14,198 (+TT&L) "nicely equipped" on my 2005 invoice. All the days since have been great.

But I'm thinking that ~2.5x that for a "nicely equipped" 5.0 (or ~3x for a 23) is a great value in 2021 - then those will "be the days"!
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Old 11-08-2020, 08:33 AM   #71
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Major Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post

I think also, the major point is that, unlike a stickie, a leak would be an easily corrected nuisance, not a path to rot in the structure.


I believe you are correct in identifying the "major point". Still, even when a central issue is accurately identified, correcting what one sees as a mischaracterization of specific experiences or facts can be valid and important. If Steve had several places where roof caulking was inadequate, it can be valuable for others to hear about his experiences. For someone to speculate the problem was a lack of maintenance had to rankle.

We are generally very pleased with our Escape, but have had issues. Just one example: both taillights fell away from the body (held only by the wiring) before we got home from Chilliwack. Reace told me "we always" caulk under the lenses to help hold them to the fiberglass. Ours had no caulk in this area and the screws pulled out of the fiberglass. Ours was a floor display and I had hoped it might have received a little extra attention during the build. This was not the case in several areas.
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Old 11-08-2020, 08:47 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post

We are generally very pleased with our Escape, but have had issues. Just one example: both taillights fell away from the body (held only by the wiring) before we got home from Chilliwack. Reace told me "we always" caulk under the lenses to help hold them to the fiberglass. Ours had no caulk in this area and the screws pulled out of the fiberglass..
That construction technique matches what I found on the bath vent. Screwed into the fiberglass, with no additional backing material. There was just. thin bead of caulk on the mounting flange. Mediocre in my opinion. I consider screws into a thin layer of fiberglass are temporary, long enough for the caulk to cure and provide the real attachment. Now I need to start checking lights.
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Old 11-08-2020, 10:34 AM   #73
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I wash my Escape after every trip , wax my Escape from top to bottom 4 to 6 times per year ,, have the wheel bearing packed and brakes adjusted every spring and every time someone posts an issue with their Escape , I check to see if I am also experiencing the same issues
I have repaired my propane tank tray , spare tire holder , repainted my frame , repaired wiring issues , fixed my furnace , repaired the bed framing , repaired numerous plumbing issues , replaced the majority of my LED light fixtures , reattached loose paneling, reattached my screen door , tried to fix my EMS , repaired my awning windows , replaced my coupler , recaulked my trailer , store my trailer inside my pole barn , etc , etc etc
By my definition, I have diligently maintained my trailer and I do not accept that the issues
I have encountered are of my making .
The constant chant that since poster X , Y or Z has not had a problem then no problem exists defies logic .For those who are experiencing a problem with their gray water system leaking, saying yours doesn’t leak doesn’t solve their problem !
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Old 11-08-2020, 11:42 AM   #74
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The constant chant that since poster X , Y or Z has not had a problem then no problem exists defies logic .For those who are experiencing a problem with their gray water system leaking, saying yours doesnít leak doesnít solve their problem !
X here, , no, saying that you haven't had all those problems isn't saying that other folks haven't had any issues. It just gives a bit of perspective to the situation for potential newbies that might think one persons litany of problems is typical.

This thread reminds of the of the old joke about a person on a dock looking at a mega yacht and asking how much it costs. "If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it."

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Old 11-08-2020, 03:49 PM   #75
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I'm not saying they can not leak, but with proper maintenance, they should not. We only have but maybe 2 roof vents, a refer vent and the a/c and Maxxfan openings to contend with. Where else do the leaks start?
Inside plumbing. A loose connection, a burst line, a leaking drain, etc. And bad stuff sometimes happens, like when someone forgets to watch their tank backflush routine and winds up pumping gallons of water out the toilet onto the floor. So it isnít just windows, vents and doorways.
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Old 11-09-2020, 10:27 AM   #76
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Back to the 23 foot model. I still think the 5.0 TA represents a real value. Shorter = fits in more camp sites. Overall length when hitched = significantly shorter. Overall length savings are significant.

Floor space will likely be pretty similar. I've owned 5th wheels and traditional trailers, and really liked the towing/handling of a 5th wheel. If/when I buy another trailer, it will likely be the 5.0. Owning a truck as a TV is not a problem for me as I have owned a truck for the past 40 years.

In my case, I cannot get a 23 foot trailer into my storage area at my home. So its a non-starter.
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Old 11-09-2020, 12:54 PM   #77
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Floor space will likely be pretty similar.
I think that's something that you have to experience to know for sure. That's not our view, even between the 21 and a 5.0.

Ron
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:34 PM   #78
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I think that's something that you have to experience to know for sure. That's not our view, even between the 21 and a 5.0.

Ron
Have to agree with you, Ron. Touring both in person I left with the 5.0 'feeling' less spacious and measurements demonstrate there's less useable floor space (stairs don't count as "useable" floor space in my book, the ability to sit on them and storage under them notwithstanding).

IMO / IME it's very hard to tell from floorplans or even pics / video's how the elevated section of the 5.0 affects the perception of the space, and the perception of a space when you are actually in it is a big part of the environmental experience.

Not saying one is 'better' than the other, just that there are meaningful differences when you're occupying the spaces, totally apart from factors like towing length, towing characteristics, etc.
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Old 11-09-2020, 03:40 PM   #79
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Have to agree with you, Ron. Touring both in person I left with the 5.0 'feeling' less spacious and measurements demonstrate there's less useable floor space (stairs don't count as "useable" floor space in my book, the ability to sit on them and storage under them notwithstanding).

IMO / IME it's very hard to tell from floorplans or even pics / video's how the elevated section of the 5.0 affects the perception of the space, and the perception of a space when you are actually in it is a big part of the environmental experience.

Not saying one is 'better' than the other, just that there are meaningful differences when you're occupying the spaces, totally apart from factors like towing length, towing characteristics, etc.
I use the stairs all the time. It is the best place to place guitar. And if the ladies come in and take over the dinette, I can sit on the stairs, admire them and stay the hell out of the way.

We LOVE the curtains that allow me to get up between 3 am and 5 am and read, drink coffee and goof around without waking my wife, who incidentally is capable of setting world sleeping records.

I never owned another camper, although I was raised in the old ones. My dad was a salesman. We had one at home a lot. The 5.0 is a little cramped. I think. Maybe because of the separation of spaces, which I love. I love sleeping up high with two windows and a skylight. Works for me.

But every trip I seem to love it more and now that it is away, I can't wait to go get it. And even thou I was quite worried this first year, I think I will be better now. I love my 5.0. For us, it is close to perfect.
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Old 11-09-2020, 03:55 PM   #80
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Agree, that's the market right now. I understand not wanting to drop $40K on a trailer. But any business is going to price them at market, and $40K is about it, probably a tad low. The choice is to go with something else, typically smaller or traditionally built.

Seems like it was just a few years ago a Casita Deluxe was $17,000. Those were the days.
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But being $40,000 US, I know it has an aluminum frame.
We're going to go with a 5.0, going to go with the power awning, Coleman air conditioner, outside shower, prep to the roof for solar, but not much else.
But we would really like to get a 12-volt compressor fridge and not have the vent on the roof, or the side.
As has been discussed many times here, I would also just get the solar (x2) and forget about it. Never worry about it again.

We loaded our 5.0 up with everything except the stereo and for us it was the right decision. It did drive the price up to (guess) $42K. Oh well. Not giving anything back. We started taking showers outside, in our bathing suits. It's fun and it makes us feel like kids. You can set the temp of the water, which is nice and take turns spraying each other. Plus the water does not go into the gray tank. If you use biodegradable soap. you really don't hurt much by doing it. This is turning into a favorite. Plus we got big water pouches and water drills so we can easily resupply the trailer with water any time we want. Shower anyone? We mostly use the outdoor shower (we have two outdoors) on the driver's side of the trailer. It's away from everything.

This kind of thinking about loading it up, up front, makes even more sense now that you cannot go back for add on's anymore.
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