What do you think of a Fiberglass Only Campground?

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That makes a lot of sense to me: keep the parking area in each site small, restrict the trailer size to match, and market to moulded fiberglass owners, but don't restrict the type of trailer allowed.

This is the way to do it imho.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by elongest

A friend of mine wanted to do something like this on his land here in Fl. The problem is the new campground rules and building regulations. The older campgrounds don't want the competition and had localities set up rules making it hard for start ups. One deal breaker was either 400 or 800 sq. ft. of severe weather shelter space for each site.
Eddie

Yeah, because we regularly get smacked by hurricanes. That's why I bought my Escape to begin with-- so I'd be out of the area during the smacking.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by emers382

I would suggest perhaps the Panhandle where you have the advantage of likely cheaper land close to the water but the disadvantage of cooler winter temperatures.

It has been down in the 30s F twice so far this week in the Panhandle.

[stratos175]

Hello All,
Yes have to admit I'm very curious to see where this goes. RBryan4 understand I'm not trying to open a campground be more like a private lets call it camping club that caters to a certain type and or size of RV. The industry I'm in office furniture you have two choices you can either sell the commodity product and fight for margins or sell niche products, niche you will never be big but have a good business if your product is popular in that niche. I think this would be popular based on feedback I received.
I truly see the biggest problem with this being management of the property. With 8-10 sites I could have given up a site to have an on site manager but only being able to do 6 sites (land I'm looking at allows) makes that something to figure out. Entrance I could have a gate that works on code, that's easy enough to do I think. But also know that only provides so much security so would probably also try to figure out a way to put some type of security on water and electric box as well.
I'm convinced word of mouth would keep the place pretty full, also think you would get your regulars every year same time of year, maybe even a snowbird or two.
Time will tell I guess .

Enjoy the journey

Steve

[cpaharley2008]

With todays "smart appliances and electrical plugs" you could very easily turn on/off sites and open gates from your smart phone sitting in another state. All you would need is full time wi/fi..
and wait for a call to activate once payment is received, again via your phone.

[trainman]

Good idea for the owners of fiberglass campers, but bad idea for the camping grounds owners. I find even when camping today in camp grounds that there may be, if luck, one other fiberglass trailer there, I'm excluding rallies of fiberglass trailers. For the price of land today building a camping ground is probably the best way to go broke, lets face it, at $25-$50 per night wouldn't get much return on your money invested.

trainman

[cpaharley2008]

Most land investment does not create monthly income, just capital gains later. Residential rental does create an income source.

[rotorbudd]

We'd love to have a place in the panhandle to got to in the fall and winter.
I like that area in the winter. The weather is not too hot or cold most of the time.

[Hilola]

If nothing else, it could just be a tax-writeoff. Kind of like the person that owns a Christmas tree farm so they can live in the pines. No money in it but they can have some property and write it off.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Hilola

If nothing else, it could just be a tax-writeoff. Kind of like the person that owns a Christmas tree farm so they can live in the pines. No money in it but they can have some property and write it off.

I don't think so, tim First off, land is not depreciable and the cost of seeds are minimal. Then you have to wait probably at least 10 years before maturity. But more than likely it is a cash crop which means a lot falls to the ground....in addition with current law your residence/land sale can be exempt.

[stratos175]

Sorry Trainman I have to disagree about the campground and growing broke part.
Here is a rough idea of the numbers I think i'm looking at.

Cost of land and developing it for what I want to do with it $170,000.

This land would give me 6 sites, I'm thinking $40.00 a night, average month has 30 days, $240.00 x 30= $7,200 a month so even if you only cover 1/2 the month that's still $3,600.
I would get my original investment back in 5 years and still own land. My investment guru likes those numbers.

Enjoy the journey.

Steve

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by stratos175

This land would give me 6 sites, I'm thinking $40.00 a night, average month has 30 days, $240.00 x 30= $7,200 a month so even if you only cover 1/2 the month that's still $3,600.
I would get my original investment back in 5 years and still own land. My investment guru likes those numbers.

50% occupancy averaged over the entire year seem quite optimistic to me. Also, that assumes a daily rate; if you do get high occupancy, it would probably require weekly and monthly rates at a lower price per day.

Repayment of the investment would be based on net income from the property, not gross: subtract utility and maintenance costs, plus property tax and depreciation of any required equipment from the site rental income.

I hope the plan works... but like any business the complete financial situation needs to be understood.

[gbaglo]

At $40 a night, I presume those sites are fully serviced, and services are not cheap.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I don't think so, tim First off, land is not depreciable and the cost of seeds are minimal. Then you have to wait probably at least 10 years before maturity. But more than likely it is a cash crop which means a lot falls to the ground....in addition with current law your residence/land sale can be exempt.

We're surrounded by Christmas tree farms in northern Oregon. And yes, it's a very big tax write off. Mortgage interest, property taxes, all the business expenses too. They don't plant seeds, they plant seedlings just as done when the clear cuts are replanted. When the trees reach maturity, cutting is done in rotation, based on the year they were planted. It can become a continuous cash crop thereafter. The only time we're seeing these farms disappear is when a building contractor makes a purchase to build homes. Wish I would have bought 300-500 acres close Portland back in the 1970s and planted trees.

[Greg A]

Originally Posted by stratos175

Sorry Trainman I have to disagree about the campground and growing broke part.
Here is a rough idea of the numbers I think i'm looking at.

Cost of land and developing it for what I want to do with it $170,000.

This land would give me 6 sites, I'm thinking $40.00 a night, average month has 30 days, $240.00 x 30= $7,200 a month so even if you only cover 1/2 the month that's still $3,600.
I would get my original investment back in 5 years and still own land. My investment guru likes those numbers.

Enjoy the journey.

Steve

Yeah, missing a lot of the expense side on this one which will quickly eat up the $40 a night x 6 x occupancy rate. I.E. property taxes (higher in most states if operating as a rental), business licenses required, occupancy/lodging taxes, utilities, maintenance, roads/road maintenance, landscaping and maintenance, common areas, the big one Insurance with huge liability policy, and on and on. My guess from running a resort VRBO property and rentals for many years is initially most of the profit you'll see would be in the tax write off's, while most of your gain would be in the appreciation of the holding over years.
That said, nothing ventured nothing gained and I'd love to watch you tackle this one. We'll be in that area a lot in three years and would stay some with you if it's right on or close to the water with beach and docks.

[stratos175]

I own two businesses now so I understand business and the cost of running one.
The biggest expense on this will be upfront cost but after that cost are minimal.
I mean we are talking water and electricity here for 6 RV sites no one using them then the cost is minimal even when they are this expense is minimal. Biggest expense any business has is employees and this one has none.
One thing I'm not sure on is property insurance, it is in a VA zone but since I'm not putting any permanent structures on the property not sure how that plays yet, sure I will have to carry some type of liability insurance as well.

Taxes would be no different then an other investment property you would own, again I own 3 rental properties now and do pretty well with them.

Part of my business plan would be book 7 days you get one free, monthly stay great still can do the math to make that work. No state park is going to let you stay a month and have you tried to book a park any where in Florida for just a week? Very hard to get a site unless you plan WAY in advance.

Someone else sent me a PM that they thought my price was high because Big Lagoon is $20.00 a night. Wow that's cheap but not the norm, most state parks in that area range from 20.00-42.00 and most on the gulf coast are closed because of hurricane damage, feel quite sure when they do reopen rates will go up to pay for all the repair. St Joseph Peninsula State park nearest to this property will probably never reopen the campground, 13 million to fix the road to get to it.
Also each one of these sites would have about 1/3 acre, you don't get that anywhere else.

We will see where this goes, still have some hurdles I have to get through but that's part of life.

Enjoy the journey.

Steve

[stratos175]

Also just checked the property taxes and they are about what I thought, estimate $2,800 a year so yes should have figured that out in my break even but still can live with my numbers.

Enjoy the journey.

Steve

[SFDavis50]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

. They don't plant seeds, they plant seedlings just as done when the clear cuts are replanted. .

I remember going to "cut your own" tree farms in the Bay Area south of San Francisco and they had a choice between Fur and Pine trees. When cutting a Fur tree they required us to leave the lowest level of branches intact and cut above them. One of the branches would then turn up and become a new tree. It grew faster because it was using the established root system.
Keep us informed of your pending small RV park as I want to spend a couple of winter months along the Gulf Coast in a couple years.

[Tford]

Its and interesting scenario. As a state park manager, we used volunteers (workampers with a free site for working 24-30 hrs/week) so much I'm not sure we could run a park in the state during the seasons they were there. The bonus was most of them took so much pride in their work that our facilities drew rave reviews when they were taking care of them vs our overworked rangers. Many of these folks are very good friends now and we visit them in our TA in places like MI, WI, IA and NE and I've put an RV site on our place when they come to TX-so don't overlook a workamper set up to help run the place. I notice on our travels when we find a little out of the way place like you describe that it's getting harder and harder for the little mom/pop places to stay open with only dealing with drop ins or the possible hassle of running a reservation system. This invariably leads to more sites with "live in" type temp workers paying a monthly rate staying longer and pretty soon if you don't leave a site or two open the place is full and the folks looking for that night or two on the fly are out of luck. And you know the next part, the live ins occasionally start junking the place up or neglecting their site/trailer. I guess you have to figure out whether this place is your money maker or just a cool place to have for folks like a lot of us passing thru and wanting a nice clean place to stay a night or two.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Tford

I guess you have to figure out whether this place is your money maker or just a cool place to have for folks like a lot of us passing thru and wanting a nice clean place to stay a night or two.

Or, could be looking to the future. Two things we can't make more of is time and 'dirt.' Both are finite resources. So while the property may never be a money maker, bare property in 20 years may be worth a whole bunch. And why not let 'campers' help pay for some of the expense. The OP will have set expenses either way, why not let others help pay for it? Whether that is 'worth' the hassle is debatable though.