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Old 08-08-2017, 05:40 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I have had vehicles stolen and broken into. I still maintain this attitude for the most part. I have learned that some folks are just worriers, and doubt they will change much. I am glad I am not much of a worrier as it is definitely a less stressful mindset.
.
I hear you there Jim. We live in the sticks with no neighbors in sight or shouting distance. If someone is determined to break into our house while we are away nothing I can do short of full time armed guards could stop them. But everything in my house is "stuff". The only things I own that I couldn't bear to loose are my photographs and they are all digitized and backed up about 4 unique ways. I love our trailer and it would make me very sad if it was stolen or broken into, but it too is just "stuff".

A friend just lost his wonderful 38 year old daughter, mother of two beautiful children with another on the way. That is the kind of loss that puts potential loss of our 'stuff" into perspective for me.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:43 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
From Alberta Transportation.
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If you have a ball-and-socket hitch, you will also need safety chains as a secondary means of attachment. Chains should be crossed under the tongue of the trailer and correctly fastened. This applies to all trailers except fifth-wheel trailers
This text, from their Towing A Trailer web page, paraphrases the actual regulation. The version in their Recreational Vehicle Towing Guide is almost word-for-word from section 98 (Attachment standards) of the Vehicle Equipment Regulation (AR 122), and says:
Quote:
  • The secondary means of attachment must be capable of
    • towing the trailer so that the trailer substantially follows in the track of the towing vehicle, and
    • preventing the drawbar of the trailer or the primary means of attachment from touching the road surface
  • ...
  • A fifth wheel trailer does not require a second means of attachment
There is no reference in the regulation to two chains, or crossing them... or even to chains specifically. One could use cable, for instance, and that's normal when towing vehicles on their own wheels with a towbar; Jim, you might find cable addresses your rattling concern. A cable is also more annoying than chain for thief to cut, in case one is using the safety chains/cables as part of the anti-theft security system.

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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
This is fairly unclear in that they say a ball mount, yet fifth wheels are exempt. It says nothing about gooseneck specifically, and the mention of crossed chains would not apply either. I don't imagine they had even considered an Anderson Ultimate.
It is a ball hitch, and is not a fifth-wheel (pin-and-plate) hitch. "Gooseneck" is not mentioned because that word has no relevant and consistent meaning; it means a shape of trailer (with a long and narrow neck reaching over the back of the truck), and has been misused as a type of hitch suitable for use with gooseneck-shaped trailers, none of which is relevant to the regulation. It contains no reference to the location of the hitch, so that apparently doesn't matter.

I agree that they did not consider the Andersen Ultimate - so it is not exempted - and wisely did not attempt to describe and regulate for every possible hitch type; that's the brilliance of a general requirement with only a specific exemption, rather than specific requirements. This way, they cover pintle hook and ring hitches (common in commercial and military applications) and whatever else someone wants to devise.

Crossed chains would apply if they were mounted to the trailer behind the coupler, on each side of the structure. Of course they will not be able to hold the tongue (pinbox) up because they are not anchored to the vehicle above the point where they are anchored to the trailer, but that doesn't matter because the box floor and tailgate will keep the trailer from dragging on the ground... perhaps at substantial cost in bodywork. The pickup box becomes part of the secondary means of attachment. I suppose one could consider the box as the entire secondary means of attachment - if one assumes incorrectly that the trailer's pinbox could never come up over the sides or tailgate - and so claim to meet the requirement without chains or cables at all.

I think a reasonable interpretation would be that Alberta requires a chain or cable or something similar (to keep the pin box in the pickup box), and that since the box floor will hold up the trailer, the crossed-chains thing is not applicable and only one chain or cable is sufficient.

On the other hand, someone very concerned about retaining the trailer might use three chains or cables, equally spaced around the hitch, to keep the trailer from going very far in any direction. I don't think I would bother...
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:53 PM   #43
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That looks like a bit of a pain to use. How is it in practice? One would need to disconnect the chain U-bolts every time you unhook, and reverse when hitching up. You could use your chains in reverse, with the U-bolt in the bed, and the hook on the hitch, but I tried that, and did not like leaving a pile of chain rattling around in the bed. Besides, I often take my Anderson Ultimate out of the bed for regular usage and would need to disconnect the chains anyway.



Personally, I think I would go with some kinda wheel lock first, but that lock is sure pretty.


I do use chains reversed, tethered to bed. On and off really easy, opens like a heavy duty clam. Uses a puck lock so bolt cutter wouldn't do you any good. It's way smaller than a wheel lock and probably just as effective , not fool proof. A disc grinder will defeat anything out there. Like I said I'm only a little more worried than you are.


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Old 08-08-2017, 07:27 PM   #44
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That looks like a bit of a pain to use. How is it in practice? One would need to disconnect the chain U-bolts every time you unhook, and reverse when hitching up. You could use your chains in reverse, with the U-bolt in the bed, and the hook on the hitch, but I tried that, and did not like leaving a pile of chain rattling around in the bed. Besides, I often take my Anderson Ultimate out of the bed for regular usage and would need to disconnect the chains anyway.



Personally, I think I would go with some kinda wheel lock first, but that lock is sure pretty.


Getting the hitch out of my truck requires removing 4 pins, to remove chains only 2 more pins. Piece of cake.Click image for larger version

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Old 08-08-2017, 07:47 PM   #45
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Hi Jim,



I too got this same lock. It's incredibly easy to use and attaches in mere moments. I'm think about getting a wheel lock too...


The tools required to defeat pin lock would also defeat a wheel lock or chains. No?


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Old 08-08-2017, 07:49 PM   #46
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True, I was just thinking that it would be harder to steal if they had to Break through both locks.


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Old 08-08-2017, 08:16 PM   #47
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I just read a post from E trailer saying the only state in the US that you would need safety chains for the Anderson with ball attachment is Indiana. Don't know about Canada. Do you have to climb into the bed to attach the chains? I do with my goose neck horse trailer I don't care much about attaching chains but I do not want to climb into the bed of my truck every time I hitch up.
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:52 PM   #48
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Okay, okay, fine then. I cannot take any more hounding and abuse from the likes of Chotch and Nathan, I will give the reverse chain thing better chance.

Actually, it is great to get the input, and is appreciated.
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:55 PM   #49
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I just read a post from E trailer saying the only state in the US that you would need safety chains for the Anderson with ball attachment is Indiana. Don't know about Canada. Do you have to climb into the bed to attach the chains? I do with my goose neck horse trailer I don't care much about attaching chains but I do not want to climb into the bed of my truck every time I hitch up.
I do have to step up on a tire to connect the chain to the attachment point in the bed, but that is not so bad. Mind you, I am young yet, not quite 60. With the reverse chain idea you would not have to, especially if you connect the chains with the king pin a foot or two back of the hitch (yeah, yeah, backwards might be better).
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:51 PM   #50
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Okay, okay, fine then. I cannot take any more hounding and abuse from the likes of Chotch and Nathan, I will give the reverse chain thing better chance.

Actually, it is great to get the input, and is appreciated.

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Old 08-08-2017, 10:55 PM   #51
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I think you will find California also requires chains with any ball hook up.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:56 AM   #52
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Yes at 5'2" i cannot step on the wheel and reach the bed of the truck might change and go with the traditional Anderson with the rails if it means I have to fasten chains when I hitch up
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:03 AM   #53
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But from what I'm reading chains are only required for the Anderson with ball connection in Indiana - but I don't know is ETrailer a reliable source ? they post a lot of information on hitches ...
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:31 AM   #54
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Yes at 5'2" i cannot step on the wheel and reach the bed of the truck might change and go with the traditional Anderson with the rails if it means I have to fasten chains when I hitch up
I am not sure if the chain connection is that much easier with rails than with a gooseneck hitch. It might be though, as they are to the outside of the Anderson Ultimate, instead of inside like with the GN hitch.
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:43 AM   #55
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Yes at 5'2" i cannot step on the wheel and reach the bed of the truck might change and go with the traditional Anderson with the rails if it means I have to fasten chains when I hitch up
With either hitch, you'll probably need to carry a ladder, if you can't step on the wheel and reach the bed. You'll always have the brake away cable to attach and need to make certain there's a positive latch on "what ever" hitch set up.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:49 AM   #56
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With my prior trailer, I found the Reese 3 lock kit at Walmart. It includes a yellow hitch ball lock, coupler lock (small padlock/pin like device) and receiver lock (pin). The primary benefit that prompted me to buy this kit was they were all keyed alike.

Once I started looking at the Escape 21, due on Nov 22, I decided to up my game on security a bit. I figured since I'm spending $30K+ US, I might as well spend a few bucks protecting. I agree a determined thief will succeed, so intention was just to make it a bit harder.

I watched the Proven lock video where he destroyed the Reese yellow ball hitch lock in 2 seconds with a simple crowbar and that proven to me the fact I had wasted $30 on the "keyed alike" kit.

So, my new plan is this:
1. Proven Lock coupler lock. About $235 US. provenlocks.com
2. A high quality chain and padlock through the wheel, around the axle. Rather than one of the wheel locks which are kinda large to store and handle. Again, those might be more effective, but a prepared thief can defeat it, so a chain to my mind is more convenient to me and makes it hard for a less-prepared thief. I went with an ABUS 6 foot chain with a nice nylon cover and stanley lock. Total about $100. I can also use this to lock bikes, generator or anything else. Might get a second chain/lock. About $100 total. Stanley 828145 ABUS 10KS
3. Skipping the coupler pin padlock. Its a hassle during hook up/unhook to have to use my keys. So just going with a single pin with safety bail. I figure they are not going to un-couple it and steal it when it is coupled to my vehicle during a rest stop.
4. Skip the receiver pin lock, using just a simple receiver pin. Again, it is a hassle to need to use keys to remove the receiver and I figure who would want to steal half of a WDH assembly (while at camp)? And they are not likely to remove the receiver and attach to their tow vehicle while I sit at a rest stop. Plus, the WD hitch makes it so there is high tension, so they would have deal with that.

So, about $350 total investment to help ensure my $30K stays put.

I would like to hear more about changing the door and hatch locks now that I have learned that like all trailers use the same key. Is there some easy replacement that uses different keys or gives keypad/keyless entry?
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:17 AM   #57
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I would just make sure you have good insurance coverage on your new Escape and then enjoy it.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:15 AM   #58
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Yes at 5'2" i cannot step on the wheel and reach the bed of the truck might change and go with the traditional Anderson with the rails if it means I have to fasten chains when I hitch up


This might help, especially if you are vertically challenged .Click image for larger version

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Old 08-09-2017, 09:07 AM   #59
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Getting the hitch out of my truck requires removing 4 pins, to remove chains only 2 more pins. Piece of cake.Attachment 26363

Cliff,

I have a locking rail pin as one of the four pins that retains the Anderson Ultimate pedestal. Although made for this usage, the lock isn't very substantial, but it's under the Anderson so you can't get to it with bolt cutters. I also have a locking pin for the ball. I figure kids are more likely to steal the ball than the pedestal, just 'cause it's shiny and looks cool. I don't worry about the chain hooks.
All,

I've also been contemplating the Ft Knox lock. I didn't know I'd have to remove the chains reach time I unhitch. But if I reverse the chains and put the "loops" on the chain hooks in the bed, that might be OK. I'll evaluate rattling chains when I have them.

BTW, I find that all I had to do to attach the chains on my Bigfoot was sit on the tailgate, lean onto my back, and reach up. Attaching the brake cable is more trouble than the chains. With the hitch adapter reversed on the Escape, the chains should be even easier. I have a RWD F150, so it is lower than the 4x4s.

With the chain hooks of the back rail (closer to the tailgate), I have a lot of loose chain, even when crossed. I may try putting the chain hooks on the front rail and thread them through the pedestal. If there is enough chan left to allow sharp turns, I'll probably use it that way. I don't think I really need chains, but if I have them, I want to use them to best advantage.

Thanks for all the good info.

Rich
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:13 AM   #60
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One thing to remember or consider, is that if hitched up with the Anderson Ulitimate, at least to a F-150, you cannot access anything from behind. The tailgate opens fine when straight inline, but you have only an inch or two clearance to the trailer frame. There is also minimal headroom. I have got into the habit of backing to within a couple feet, connecting everything, closing the tailgate, then backing in all the way. I do the reverse when disconnecting too.
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