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Old 10-19-2020, 09:27 AM   #1
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21NE Dinette Mod

Hello Escape Enthusiasts, We are in the market for a 21NE. See attached for suggested mod to the dinette area. Has a setup like this been contemplated / designed / installed by our community anywhere? Would it be something that ETI would entertain / install? Let me know, thank you so much,
Scott
Annapolis, MD
escape21NEdinettemod.jpg
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:37 AM   #2
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The center bench that you show removed contains some elec components and is a pathway between the benches for inverter wiring, etc. They would have to relocate some elec (battery disconnect, etc.) but it could be done, I'd think.


Everyone's opinion of the merits/disadvantages is different based on personal likes/needs experiences. We have the stock setup, and find the end bench pretty useless - it's too shallow for comfortable sitting, and so ends up holding 'stuff' that we want nearby for easy access. But we find the stock table quite large so we are okay with it for the two of us.
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:47 PM   #3
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I asked if Escape would swap the bed and dinette positions, and they declined. My guess was that they did not want to mess with moving the breaker panel that is located in the base of the U. I expect they will decline to make a traditional dinette there. I did get them to agree to making two dinettes, though, and our rear dinette is a traditional dinette with straight bench seats.

My intention was to convert the front dinette into a permanent bed. After using it, we have decided to leave the dinette cushions in place, made up as a bed. This allows us to access all the under bench space by moving the cushions, instead of moving a mattress. It also allows us to still make it into a lounge space. We had Escape ship the front dinette posts and bases loose - not mounted - and so the open space underneath is unobstructed by doors or bases. It is easy to get things in & out. We put food and gear in totes that slide to the back of the space, and put our shoes and a small garbage can in front, where they are not underfoot and easy to get to. We found the dinette cushions to be very firm, and comfortable enough for us to sleep on just fine, although we plan to add a 1-1/2" thick memory foam topper.

The rear dinette is great. It is raised, and offers excellent views. The seat backs end just below the windows. The seats are a full 60" long, and can seat 3 adults per side comfortably. I like having the table nearer the kitchen area, but I wish I had confirmed with Escape the table length. The made it 46" long, which is fine, but I should have told them not to bevel the corners. With the sliding feature, there would be no problem getting in the dinette with a full rectangular table of that length. I will probably make a new table, and try to incorporate a 4 way slide somehow. Maybe I can find a Dicor slide somewhere. (We also got the Springfield pedestal because we figure to have grandkids along with us often, and need to make the rear dinette into a bed.)

Anyway, you might give that a idea a try. Because someone has to do a crawl over or crawl past if two are in a cross-wise bed, we find having the bed in front with 51"+ being open on the side, versus the 35" opening with the bed in the rear, to being much easier to get out of. This coupled with the length, height, and better view (in our opinion) of having the dinette in the rear, drove our decision.
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:31 PM   #4
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Excellent points, particularly about the front bed area having a much larger leg swing area available, something I missed.
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:40 PM   #5
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Support

This is the table support we use for our "reverse" 19.
I made a small, foot hold-down to hold it in place when lifting against spring tension to lift the table.
Works great!
factoryrvsurplus.com/products/toughgrade-snap-2-folding-table-legs-bed-base?_pos=5&_sid=50d325303&_ss=r

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Old 10-19-2020, 01:45 PM   #6
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Sounds very interesting! I'd love to see pictures or a drawing! How did Escape run the water lines over to the kitchen with the straight bench seats in the rear dinette? Thanks!
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherminator View Post
I asked if Escape would swap the bed and dinette positions, and they declined. My guess was that they did not want to mess with moving the breaker panel that is located in the base of the U. I expect they will decline to make a traditional dinette there. I did get them to agree to making two dinettes, though, and our rear dinette is a traditional dinette with straight bench seats.

My intention was to convert the front dinette into a permanent bed. After using it, we have decided to leave the dinette cushions in place, made up as a bed. This allows us to access all the under bench space by moving the cushions, instead of moving a mattress. It also allows us to still make it into a lounge space. We had Escape ship the front dinette posts and bases loose - not mounted - and so the open space underneath is unobstructed by doors or bases. It is easy to get things in & out. We put food and gear in totes that slide to the back of the space, and put our shoes and a small garbage can in front, where they are not underfoot and easy to get to. We found the dinette cushions to be very firm, and comfortable enough for us to sleep on just fine, although we plan to add a 1-1/2" thick memory foam topper.

The rear dinette is great. It is raised, and offers excellent views. The seat backs end just below the windows. The seats are a full 60" long, and can seat 3 adults per side comfortably. I like having the table nearer the kitchen area, but I wish I had confirmed with Escape the table length. The made it 46" long, which is fine, but I should have told them not to bevel the corners. With the sliding feature, there would be no problem getting in the dinette with a full rectangular table of that length. I will probably make a new table, and try to incorporate a 4 way slide somehow. Maybe I can find a Dicor slide somewhere. (We also got the Springfield pedestal because we figure to have grandkids along with us often, and need to make the rear dinette into a bed.)

Anyway, you might give that a idea a try. Because someone has to do a crawl over or crawl past if two are in a cross-wise bed, we find having the bed in front with 51"+ being open on the side, versus the 35" opening with the bed in the rear, to being much easier to get out of. This coupled with the length, height, and better view (in our opinion) of having the dinette in the rear, drove our decision.
I found this schematic somewhere else and saved it, perhaps your modification was rejected because the front is 4" too narrow for a queen size bed? I guess I could go the formal route and just ask ETI but that's no fun At any rate, with 2 little ones (ages 11 and 8), lots of table space has proven valuable so thought this might be a nice solution.21ne with measurements.png
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stopgowalkon View Post
I found this schematic somewhere else and saved it, perhaps your modification was rejected because the front is 4" too narrow for a queen size bed? I guess I could go the formal route and just ask ETI but that's no fun At any rate, with 2 little ones (ages 11 and 8), lots of table space has proven valuable so thought this might be a nice solution.Attachment 51317
I don't remember for sure, but I think I told them I didn't need a mattress, because I knew I would need a full, or maybe full XL. And just for accuracy, the 56" measurement is with the front seat back in place. Without it, the measurement is almost 59".

I'm with you on the large table. Our two granddaughters, who go on the majority of our camping trips, are almost 9 and 5. They love to color and do crafts, and tables are well used. Ask Escape about you wish - the worst is they can say no. The configuration people are used to it and do it very politely. I asked for several things, and got turned down on some, and got a yes on others. I have the first double dinette 21NE, for example.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:29 PM   #9
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OK gotcha and thank you, the idea of the dinette in the back has me rethinking regardless.
We just parted ways with a camper where in many instances wished breakfast had a better view so I totally get the appeal.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mfschu View Post
Sounds very interesting! I'd love to see pictures or a drawing! How did Escape run the water lines over to the kitchen with the straight bench seats in the rear dinette? Thanks!
They are underneath the trailer. They exit from the bathroom area and run over to under the sink area. Between the front axle and the gray tank.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0770.jpg (155.6 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0772.jpg (148.6 KB, 32 views)
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Old 10-19-2020, 03:49 PM   #11
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Here are pictures of the inside (I'm using it as an work-from-home office):
Front dinette made into an almost queen size sleeping area
Front dinette underneath storage - 27 gallon tote, small wastebasket, shoes
Front dinette as lounge
Rear dinette passenger side
Rear dinette driver side

There is plenty more room under that front dinette for a smaller tote or bags, and I intend to get a collapsible shoe rack to increase shoe storage, too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0814[1].jpg (121.7 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0816[1].jpg (159.7 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0818[1].jpg (137.9 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0819[1].jpg (157.4 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0820[1].jpg (177.9 KB, 35 views)
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:47 PM   #12
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Table

Here are a couple photos....hope they help...
Also: I believe our water lines go under the floor. We have the spray foam on the bottom so the lines are protected, somewhat.
Gary
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File Type: jpg TblUp.jpg (168.5 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg TblDown.jpg (181.2 KB, 17 views)
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:52 PM   #13
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One other thing to mention. With our dinette in the back of our 19 the back cushion support is almost nil. I usually sit with a throw pillow behind me for support. I can't imagine that would be better in the 21? Perhaps Escape provides thicker backrest? I suppose one thing one could do is to make the table wider? Hmmmmmmm! Looks like a mod coming up....
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by pkgman51 View Post
One other thing to mention. With our dinette in the back of our 19 the back cushion support is almost nil. I usually sit with a throw pillow behind me for support. I can't imagine that would be better in the 21? Perhaps Escape provides thicker backrest? I suppose one thing one could do is to make the table wider? Hmmmmmmm! Looks like a mod coming up....
Gary
I put black pool noodles behind the back cushions. That makes a huge difference in comfort. You may not see it in my pictures above (rear dinette) but it angles the seat backs to a comfortable angle. That is why I can sit out there all day.
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherminator View Post
I put black pool noodles behind the back cushions. That makes a huge difference in comfort. You may not see it in my pictures above (rear dinette) but it angles the seat backs to a comfortable angle. That is why I can sit out there all day.
We have pool noodles as well and agree that it makes a great difference. BUT we had ETI put counter extensions in the dinette area and they do interfere with the cushion. My wife likes the counter extension and tolerates inconvenience better than I. We have 4" pool noodles now, I plan to try 2 or 3 inch ones, maybe that will make the difference.
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:27 AM   #16
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One of the reasons for having the flip up tables in the dinette area is the ability to convert the area into a "lounge" area by removing the main table. Thus these flip up will become handy then.
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File Type: jpg DSCN1371.JPG (20.3 KB, 435 views)
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronn View Post
We have pool noodles as well and agree that it makes a great difference. BUT we had ETI put counter extensions in the dinette area and they do interfere with the cushion. My wife likes the counter extension and tolerates inconvenience better than I. We have 4" pool noodles now, I plan to try 2 or 3 inch ones, maybe that will make the difference.
We have an extension on the bathroom wall, but it doesn't come close to interfering with the cushions - either seat or back. Our extension may be smaller - 8"x18". Our noodles are 3-1/4" dia.
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:44 PM   #18
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Thanks sherminator for posting the photos! What did ETI charge you for the double dinette option? Also, in your first picture there is one cushion at the front of the trailer against the wall. Is this cushion removable also if you wanted to maximize the width of the bed? thanks!
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Old 10-21-2020, 10:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mfschu View Post
Thanks sherminator for posting the photos! What did ETI charge you for the double dinette option? Also, in your first picture there is one cushion at the front of the trailer against the wall. Is this cushion removable also if you wanted to maximize the width of the bed? thanks!
You're welcome for the photos. Escape charged me US$360 for the straight bench dinette, and quoted US$480 to do a U shaped dinette. Yes, the cushion is removable. It gains you another about 2-1/2". I measured 59" from the front wall to the bathroom wall with the front cushion removed. Mary and I find it to be plenty of room either way. I like having the cushion there as a shelf for my glasses.
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Old 10-21-2020, 06:03 PM   #20
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U -shaped Dinette/Lounge area

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
One of the reasons for having the flip up tables in the dinette area is the ability to convert the area into a "lounge" area by removing the main table. Thus these flip up will become handy then.
Hello cpaharley2008,
I am very excited to see the lounge area you incorporate in the U-shaped Dinette. To me this is Escape's best option for comfort. Since joining the forum last month I have been searching for changes to the dinette area. Two fellow members have made similar changes and I am hoping to incorporate some of each.

In Thread "Escape 21 Dinette Options", posted Nov. 7, 2019 Perryb67on post #3 made the rear seat 22' deep vs. 18" DP. This can accommodated more comfortable 4" thick Seat Back cushions vs. 2" thick and still give ample room for your "bottom"
He also added a filler board and split cushions to make it a lounging area.

In Thread "Pros/Cons of Springfield Pedestal" June 21, 2020, Posts #'s 18 &19, Member Ronn showed photos of a U- shaped Dinette with a Lagun Mount and a 7" deep extension for your legs. Ronn's extension board and cushion have u-shaped cutouts for the Lagun upright arm.

I'm hoping to use the Lagun Mount and I hope you can help me by answering 4 questions:
1. Did you increase the seat depth from 18 to 22 inches to allow for thicker
cushions?
2. What is the dimension of the depth of your seat, with the extension board in place, from the Face of the Seat Back to the forward edge of your extension?
3. Do feel that depth is adequate for lounging or should it be greater or
smaller?
4. Do you, when converting to a bed do you remove the extension board and
cushion(s) and are you then able to use the table top as the filler?
I assume the extension board is not used when dining.

Thank you in advance for helping me resolve this issue.
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