Adding underfloor insulation

[Ron in BC]

I've probably spent way more time under my trailer than most other owners. I've added wiring for a back-up camera, back-up light, TV cable and a unified negative buss cable. All the time I was looking at that great expanse of flat f.g. thinking about how easy it would be to turn an approximately R-1 value floor into an R-11 value floor. I know, I know, putting down a mat or cork does make the floor feel less cold than bare vinyl but it barely changes the R value.

On the 19 there are two areas that are easy candidates for retro-fitting insulation. Both are 4' long, meaning that one piece of 2' x 8' foam is enough to completely cover the area with almost zero waste.

I choose to do the forward area, under the dinette. That area runs from the very front back to the grey water tank. The second area is between the rear of the grey water tank and the front of the fresh water tank. On the interior that translates into the area from the front of the bed forward.

I used 2" pink foam with an insulation value of R-10. That turned out to be a good choice because the propane line runs down one side and the 2" thick foam fits snugly between it and the floor. Perfect.

Because of the "L" shape cross stringer and the propane line it was impossible to install the 2 major pieces in 1 piece. On the drivers side, above the propane line, 2 small pieces were inserted and then the main larger pieces were installed.

All cut edges and the bottom surface was painted with acrylic latex paint. Foam adhesive was used to attach the foam to the f.g. Redundant supports were added in case the adhesive failed.

The stabilizers were removed for easier access and are missing in the photos and the loose wires are normally held in place overhead.

The job went so well I'm wishing I had more time to do the rear section before we head South. If we get some down near zero overnight temperatures before we leave for Quartzsite I'll take some comparative floor readings of the newly insulated floor, the area over the grey water tank and the non-insulated area bu the bed.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I've probably spent way more time under my trailer than most other owners. I've added wiring for a back-up camera, back-up light, TV cable and a unified negative buss cable. All the time I was looking at that great expanse of flat f.g. thinking about how easy it would be to turn an approximately R-1 value floor into an R-11 value floor. I know, I know, putting down a mat or cork does make the floor feel less cold than bare vinyl but it barely changes the R value.

On the 19 there are two areas that are easy candidates for retro-fitting insulation. Both are 4' long, meaning that one piece of 2' x 8' foam is enough to completely cover the area with almost zero waste.

I choose to do the forward area, under the dinette. That area runs from the very front back to the grey water tank. The second area is between the rear of the grey water tank and the front of the fresh water tank. On the interior that translates into the area from the front of the bed forward.

I used 2" pink foam with an insulation value of R-10. That turned out to be a good choice because the propane line runs down one side and the 2" thick foam fits snugly between it and the floor. Perfect.

Because of the "L" shape cross stringer and the propane line it was impossible to install the 2 major pieces in 1 piece. On the drivers side, above the propane line, 2 small pieces were inserted and then the main larger pieces were installed.

All cut edges and the bottom surface was painted with acrylic latex paint. Foam adhesive was used to attach the foam to the f.g. Redundant supports were added in case the adhesive failed.

The stabilizers were removed for easier access and are missing in the photos and the loose wires are normally held in place overhead.

The job went so well I'm wishing I had more time to do the rear section before we head South. If we get some down near zero overnight temperatures before we leave for Quartzsite I'll take some comparative floor readings of the newly insulated floor, the area over the grey water tank and the non-insulated area bu the bed.

Ron

Ron I betcha that should work . Pat

[thoer]

Nice work again, Ron.

[Greg A]

I'm going to have to inspect this closely at Quartzite.

[Santiago]

A Super Seven Ron ?

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Santiago

A Super Seven Ron ?

No, 3 years of beating my head against the wall making my own. Went to the Caterham factory in England with the intent to buy a kit but looked at them welding bits of tube together and thought, "I can do that" I took a year to build my house, 2 years to build an ocean going sailboat and 3 years to build that little car. Something is wrong with that progression.

Ron

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

No, 3 years of beating my head against the wall making my own. Went to the Caterham factory in England with the intent to buy a kit but looked at them welding bits of tube together and thought, "I can do that" I took a year to build my house, 2 years to build an ocean going sailboat and 3 years to build that little car. Something is wrong with that progression.

Ron

That's very funny Ron. I am sorry I really meant a Super Seven kit, Caterham likely being the top dog. Good that you appreciate that type of car. Will plan on a future stop and see it, first I need to get off the squirrel cage called "a job" and retire at end of this year. We will spend a lot of time in beautiful Canada.

[Slickheadhunter]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I've probably spent way more time under my trailer than most other owners. I've added wiring for a back-up camera, back-up light, TV cable and a unified negative buss cable. All the time I was looking at that great expanse of flat f.g. thinking about how easy it would be to turn an approximately R-1 value floor into an R-11 value floor. I know, I know, putting down a mat or cork does make the floor feel less cold than bare vinyl but it barely changes the R value.

On the 19 there are two areas that are easy candidates for retro-fitting insulation. Both are 4' long, meaning that one piece of 2' x 8' foam is enough to completely cover the area with almost zero waste.

I choose to do the forward area, under the dinette. That area runs from the very front back to the grey water tank. The second area is between the rear of the grey water tank and the front of the fresh water tank. On the interior that translates into the area from the front of the bed forward.

I used 2" pink foam with an insulation value of R-10. That turned out to be a good choice because the propane line runs down one side and the 2" thick foam fits snugly between it and the floor. Perfect.

Because of the "L" shape cross stringer and the propane line it was impossible to install the 2 major pieces in 1 piece. On the drivers side, above the propane line, 2 small pieces were inserted and then the main larger pieces were installed.

All cut edges and the bottom surface was painted with acrylic latex paint. Foam adhesive was used to attach the foam to the f.g. Redundant supports were added in case the adhesive failed.

The stabilizers were removed for easier access and are missing in the photos and the loose wires are normally held in place overhead.

The job went so well I'm wishing I had more time to do the rear section before we head South. If we get some down near zero overnight temperatures before we leave for Quartzsite I'll take some comparative floor readings of the newly insulated floor, the area over the grey water tank and the non-insulated area bu the bed.

Ron

Very nice Ron!
I'm considering doing that myself, I spend the majority of my trailer time during the fall in northern NH and Maine. Something like this will be worth the effort!

[MyronL]

Ron you knock me out! I just got a heads up on this thread from Dave1. (I probably saw this thread title days back and ignored it thinking it was about factory sprayed insulation.)

I don't care how cold it is tomorrow - will be crawling under there to see if I can do that. (Or not.) Good stuff.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by MyronL

- will be crawling under there to see if I can do that. (Or not.) Good stuff.

Myron, anyone that's done the nice mods you've done could do this one. The real plus is that the materials so light to handle, 8 lbs. total for what I did and cuts like butter.

I looked at it as worthwhile because it's the one area on the trailer where I could significantly and easily improve the R value.

So come on over to Quartzsite in a couple of weeks, bring foam and we'll have a work party.

Ron

[stephen99]

Man, this is what I want to do if I ever get my 21. I like the idea of adding insulation on the bottom but didn't want to do the spray thing. Nice job, Ron.

Did you paint it to prevent moisture absorption or some other reason?

[Jim Bennett]

Looks great, Ron. Something I will definitely be considering.

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Redundant supports were added in case the adhesive failed.

Do you think it might be possible to use supports like this to hold the foam in place, and eliminate the need for adhesive? I am just thinking about future replacement, or maybe a need for temporary removal. Likely will never be needed, but you never know.

When we use rigid foam at work, and also want a good vapour seal, we cut the foam 1/4" short all the way around, and use this space to apply low expansion spray foam. I wonder if something like this would hold good, and just slicing that foam would enable the foam to be released.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by stephen99

Did you paint it to prevent moisture absorption or some other reason?

Both I'm not really sure if it needed the paint to prevent moisture absorption on the cut edges but it seemed like a good idea. I would have anyway because going through border crossings I think they sometimes use a mirror or video to scan the bottom of vehicles. Since I'm going through two countries borders in the next few weeks having them see a black underside is probably less attention getting than one that's pink.

Ron

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Do you think it might be possible to use supports like this to hold the foam in place, and eliminate the need for adhesive?.

Yes, absolutely. My installation was almost triple redundant. I made the pieces a squeeze in fit. I almost couldn't get them back out to paint.

My primary motivation for using the adhesive was to seal the perimeter of the foam to prevent moisture from wicking in between the top of the foam and the f.g.

So your way of providing a vapor seal would accomplish the same thing and still allow removal if required.

Ron

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Santiago

A Super Seven Ron ?

It's easy to spot real car enthusiasts - they spot part of the grill of a car in the background of a trailer photo and know the make, model, and significance of the vehicle.

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

No, 3 years of beating my head against the wall making my own. Went to the Caterham factory in England with the intent to buy a kit but looked at them welding bits of tube together and thought, "I can do that" I took a year to build my house, 2 years to build an ocean going sailboat and 3 years to build that little car. Something is wrong with that progression.

Ron

I know a guy who built a Super Seven-style car, widened to suit North American preferences and set up to use Toyota Corolla GTS components, because they were (at the time) more commonly available here than the European Ford stuff originally used in the Lotus kits. It was intended to be the prototype for small-scale commercial production, but turned out to be so much work that it production cost would have been too high.

The house / boat / car progression contains two lessons applicable to Escape owners:

• more custom = more work
• complexity packed into smaller spaces = more work

[Brian B-P]

I'm sorry I missed this thread when it first appeared. I think this is a great idea.

Tying to existing bolt ends with coupler nuts to support framework is very clever.

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I used 2" pink foam with an insulation value of R-10.

I assume that's Foamular®, which is an extruded polystyrene (XPS) foam, meaning that is is a continuous board rather than a bunch of beads squeezed together. I think it's important to use this type of foam board (in this brand or others such as genuine Styrofoam™ or Kingspan Green Guard) for strength, rather than the cheaper expanded polystyrene beadboad that might be tempting due to its lower price.

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I choose to do the forward area, under the dinette. That area runs from the very front back to the grey water tank.

That would run under part of the black tank (although only the forward and inboard corner), a bonus in reducing tank freezing issues.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I've probably spent way more time under my trailer than most other owners. I've added wiring for a back-up camera, back-up light, TV cable and a unified negative buss cable. All the time I was looking at that great expanse of flat f.g. thinking about how easy it would be to turn an approximately R-1 value floor into an R-11 value floor. I know, I know, putting down a mat or cork does make the floor feel less cold than bare vinyl but it barely changes the R value.

On the 19 there are two areas that are easy candidates for retro-fitting insulation. Both are 4' long, meaning that one piece of 2' x 8' foam is enough to completely cover the area with almost zero waste.

I choose to do the forward area, under the dinette. That area runs from the very front back to the grey water tank. The second area is between the rear of the grey water tank and the front of the fresh water tank. On the interior that translates into the area from the front of the bed forward.

I used 2" pink foam with an insulation value of R-10. That turned out to be a good choice because the propane line runs down one side and the 2" thick foam fits snugly between it and the floor. Perfect.

Because of the "L" shape cross stringer and the propane line it was impossible to install the 2 major pieces in 1 piece. On the drivers side, above the propane line, 2 small pieces were inserted and then the main larger pieces were installed.

All cut edges and the bottom surface was painted with acrylic latex paint. Foam adhesive was used to attach the foam to the f.g. Redundant supports were added in case the adhesive failed.

The stabilizers were removed for easier access and are missing in the photos and the loose wires are normally held in place overhead.

The job went so well I'm wishing I had more time to do the rear section before we head South. If we get some down near zero overnight temperatures before we leave for Quartzsite I'll take some comparative floor readings of the newly insulated floor, the area over the grey water tank and the non-insulated area bu the bed.

Ron

cc

I'm thinking of doing this to my 5.0 TA. How has the insulation held up?

[Ron in BC]

Very well. A little grubby but it's my frame that needs a little attention. Time to wire brush and paint it.

The insulation is dirty and has a few small pits from flying rocks. But then its done two trips down Baja, including the unfinished Mex-5, and been across Canada and the US, including long stretches of gravel in never ending construction zones.

We've spent many nights in cold areas and the insulated floor does seem to have been worth the small cost and effort when walking around in bare feet.

Ron

[Chotch]

Guess it's on my "To Do" list.
Thanks

[TheWanderers]

Ron,

I had to jump in here because I wanted to make sure that a car guy like you knows about POR 15 for treating rusted and pitted metal like your frame. I used thing on our 1991 Scamp as well as my Jeep and it's the best. I painted the entire frame of the Scamp and it looked very very good.

Check this stuff out. The instructions for the product direct you to thoroughly clean new metal to remove any grease or etching agents. However, on old metal that has "some age on it" they recommend simply knocking the loose stuff off, make sure that it's clean, and treat.

The hitch, frame and bumper of the Scamp looked 20 years newer and the coating looked the same after 9 months outside in unprotected weather/snow/rain/etc.

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Very well. A little grubby but it's my frame that needs a little attention. Time to wire brush and paint it.
Ron