Composting Toilet?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by padlin

Where I stay in the US Virgin Islands where fresh water is at a premium the use of grey water for watering gardens is considered green.

I know a guy, who actually is a plumber, that when they built their house had to put in a cistern to hold fresh water, as there was no municipal supply, and there was no ground water for a well. When a few years later, the local municipality did put in water service, they replumbed their house drains so the showers and sinks drained into the cistern, and they used the pump to pump in out on their lawn and gardens, and boy were they ever lush.

[thoer]

Grey water from one trailer or even many campers is vastly different than situations facing popular campgrounds. My understanding from talking with a NPS Ranger is that, at least in US National Parks, that they want to minimize attracting animals to campsites. Grey water used to clean dishes contains food remnants. Any one camper wouldn't constitute much food matter, but with the numbers of people visiting, it would be significant. So most US NPS campgrounds have dish washing stations.

[Jim Bennett]

That is very true, Eric. If I was at a campground of any sort, I would definitely dispose of waste at a sani-dump. Campgrounds constitute about 10% of my camping though.

[daveandsandyclink]

I have visited a lot of US NPs. From what I witnessed, most of the dishwashing stations are nasty. I remember one last year that was being used to wash their small dog. Some people do not have any camping etiquette and simply don't care about rules or cleaning up the messes they make. A lot of our national parks are not what they use to be. Poorly maintained due to budget cuts and the lack of help to keep things repaired and clean.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

I have visited a lot of US NPs. From what I witnessed, most of the dishwashing stations are nasty. I remember one last year that was being used to wash their small dog. Some people do not have any camping etiquette and simply don't care about rules or cleaning up the messes they make. A lot of our national parks are not what they use to be. Poorly maintained due to budget cuts and the lack of help to keep things repaired and clean.

More and more people visiting US NP's, and the parks being budgeted with less and less money - a recipe for disaster. And our National Parks are such a treasure. It seems like visitors from other countries appreciate US National Parks much more than average US citizens do. So many people I have spoken with from overseas marvel at what we have and how most other countries have nothing to compare.

Canada also has so many beautiful parks. I hope they aren't facing the double crunch US ones are currently facing.

[Donna D.]

I agree that typically gray water (w/ biodegradable soap) in itself isn't a problem. Dumping on the ground around bushes wouldn't be a problem once a week, etc. But, some sites hardly cool off before the next camper moves in. Wouldn't take too long before a site could become a stinky swamp.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

...Some people do not have any camping etiquette and simply don't care about rules or cleaning up the messes they make. A lot of our national parks are not what they use to be. Poorly maintained due to budget cuts and the lack of help to keep things repaired and clean.

The greatest problem as I see it is that many people just don't care what kind of negative influence they have on a place. They will not think twice about throwing a cigarette butt on the ground or out their window, trash will be thrown anywhere or allowed to blow away with no thought given to picking things up. When camping, those same people will cut down trees where they are not allowed to do so, or leave their broken lawn chairs or other trash in the middle of a camp site when they leave. They have no consideration for others, and assume that someone else will clean up after them.

I have a (21 yr old) son who has lived in Jasper and Banff National Parks for several years. One day while on a hike with him near Jasper, I noticed that every once in a while he would stop and pick something up and put it in his pocket. He was doing this unobtrusively without making a big deal out of it. I later realized that he was picking up bits and pieces of garbage that others had left behind, and was carrying them with him to later deposit into a garbage bin when we got back to town. It made me proud that he had developed this sense of responsibility and commitment to preserving our natural areas. If this same attitude was adopted by everyone traveling in our parks, these places will continue to exhibit the beauty that has drawn visitors to them for many years. Unfortunately, too many people have the attitude that it is beneath them to clean up after themselves and someone else should do it. Until that general attitude changes, things are going to continue to go down hill.

[Jim Bennett]

Good on your kid Dave, you even see some of that in deep backcountry travel too. You would think that there, where people are hauling their food and gear by canoe, or on foot, they would be more of the type that are inclined to 'Leave No Trace'. While this is true for the majority of users, there are a few that stand out like a sore thumb, the ones that figure that any waste can be burned, with the remains left in the fire pit. I have cleaned out many a firepit upon getting to a site, properly disposing of ashes, and putting the garbage in with mine. I saw a guy one time leave a pop bottle at the end of a portage trail. When I told him he should take it with him, he said not to worry, the Park Facilities Officers would pick it up, it is their job. Piss poor attitude.

There are a couple spots near Calgary where people go camping, just to get out and party. These places have been raped of any possible dry wood to burn, have dozens of firepits all over the place, nails in all the trees, garbage left lying about (and big stuff too). Go for a walk into the trees, and you see a forest of paper roses. This is not really camping, at least in any responsible manner. Here, the disposal of dishwater is but a wee thing compared to the rest of the devastation.

Of course, there are lots of remote boondocking sites where the people using them do so in a responsible manner, and keep the areas clean. There are literally thousands of places within 90 minutes of here to find a spot in the Forestry to boondock.

[daveandsandyclink]

Good post Dave W
It strikes a nerve in me to be hiking above tree line with water bottles and granola bar wrappers strewn along the trail. Or go out on a coastal pier at daybreak and see beer cans and frozen bait shrimp boxes scattered about and blowing off into the water.

[Lgrant]

Hi there, Was Reace able to tell you if he could put a Nature's Head or other composting toilet in the Escape 5.0 ? Would love to find out if it can be done.
Thank you
lgrant

[advenas]

Originally Posted by Lgrant

Hi there, Was Reace able to tell you if he could put a Nature's Head or other composting toilet in the Escape 5.0 ? Would love to find out if it can be done.
Thank you
lgrant

Not to be a wise guy....but if you measure the size of the area where the toilet sits....then look at the dimensions of the Natures Head, Air Head or C-Head composting toilets that should tell you if it will fit.

I picked up my 17B in March and did this very thing. Turns out the area where the toilet sits is not square but has an angle on the back right corner. So none of the current brand composting toilets will fit. Trying to decide if I want to build one instead.

[steve dunham]

I went to a Catholic military all male high school . If you were out on school grounds or on the parade grounds and walked by a piece of trash on the ground and did not pick it up you got rewarded by getting to come to school on Saturday and spend the day policing the area or scrubbing floors or washing windows. It only took once for them to get their point accross. Don't know with all the precious children now days if that would be allowed . The Christian Brothers did not believe we were precious but did believe we were supposed to conduct ourselves properly.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Don't know with all the precious children now days if that would be allowed . The Christian Brothers did not believe we were precious but did believe we were supposed to conduct ourselves properly.

Are you joking? Such barbarism would "trigger", new catch word, all sorts of trauma. Lawsuit for sure.

Ron

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Are you joking? Such barbarism would "trigger", new catch word, all sorts of trauma. Lawsuit for sure.

Ron

I am not very PC and I often get in trouble due to my lack of tact and sensitivity. If I insulted any members of this forum that are children , I apologize
All of God's children are precious.

Thanks Ron for politely pointing out my faux pau

[TWH]

I will be buying a Fiberglass Egg type trailer in the future. I'm leaning towards an Escape 19 or 21 on the first tier and on the second tier are the Escape 17 and Casita 17. I will be using a composting toilet in the bathroom of whatever trailer I eventually get. My final decision may be dictated by which trailer bathroom is easier to adapt for the use of a compost toilet.

From reading the two threads on this forum, it appears that the "shelf" the stock toilet is mounted to rides over the black tank. Therefore to adapt this to a compost toilet, the black tank must be removed, the shelf cut out and that former shelf area restored with a floor that is even with the rest of the bathroom (is the "shelf" fiberglass or plastic?). Or, build up the non-shelf area around the toilet providing more floor space, at the level of the shelf for one's feet when using the compost toilet.

Does anyone reading this know how to get a message to Reese? If yes, please ask him to address this question. It would be nice to have a composting toilet option when ordering a new Escape. And, if retro-fitting an Escape for this option, it would be great to have the opinion of "how best to do it" from Reese the engineer or designer of this area of the trailer who actually knows the potential issues beneath the surface that the rest of us can only make guesses about. Thanks in advance Reese for addressing this question.
Tim

[rbryan4]

Tim, I don't think Reace is interested in addressing a composting toilet, or the requirements to install one, but you could always ask. Escapes come with black tanks period (well at least the ones with a bathroom) as far as I know.

The bathroom is a molded fiberglass insert with a top and bottom half and a seam in the middle horizontally. The ledge the toilet sits on is part of the bottom half mold, and sits over the black tank.

A composting toilet would of course sit too high on that ledge, but the ledge is part of the bathroom mold. It isn't going to be changed by the factory. The bathroom is completely seamless, except for the horizontal band at mid height in the bathroom.

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by TWH

I will be buying a Fiberglass Egg type trailer in the future. I'm leaning towards an Escape 19 or 21 on the first tier and on the second tier are the Escape 17 and Casita 17. I will be using a composting toilet in the bathroom of whatever trailer I eventually get. My final decision may be dictated by which trailer bathroom is easier to adapt for the use of a compost toilet.

From reading the two threads on this forum, it appears that the "shelf" the stock toilet is mounted to rides over the black tank. Therefore to adapt this to a compost toilet, the black tank must be removed, the shelf cut out and that former shelf area restored with a floor that is even with the rest of the bathroom (is the "shelf" fiberglass or plastic?). Or, build up the non-shelf area around the toilet providing more floor space, at the level of the shelf for one's feet when using the compost toilet.

Does anyone reading this know how to get a message to Reese? If yes, please ask him to address this question. It would be nice to have a composting toilet option when ordering a new Escape. And, if retro-fitting an Escape for this option, it would be great to have the opinion of "how best to do it" from Reese the engineer or designer of this area of the trailer who actually knows the potential issues beneath the surface that the rest of us can only make guesses about. Thanks in advance Reese for addressing this question.
Tim

Just send them an email with your questions. If possible, email a page with a drawing/dimensions of your composter. IF it's available the same height as a low-profile toilet, it could be made to sit right on top of the blank tank without modifying the trailer - which could be important if you decide to sell it later. Not everyone would like a composter.

[Brian B-P]

The only current Escape without the moulded wet bathroom is the 17A. If the shower is not desired, a complete custom bathroom (with composting toilet) could be built in a 17A; otherwise, there will be a black tank and a wet bath moulded around it in a stock trailer.

It might be possible to get Escape to entirely omit the bathroom in any model - black tank, moulded enclosure, toilet, sink, and plumbing. Again, a complete custom bathroom (with composting toilet) could be built by the purchaser. It would be difficult to include a shower (making it a wet bath) without the moulded room shell, but I suppose it could be done. I don't know if a wet bath approach is compatible with a composting toilet.

A message through the Escape Trailer Industries contact form or e-mail to info@escapetrailer.com will be directed to Reace if you request that, but he gets a lot a questions so be prepared to wait a reasonable time.

Originally Posted by TWH

Or, build up the non-shelf area around the toilet providing more floor space, at the level of the shelf for one's feet when using the compost toilet.

That would make the floor really high, which seems like a problem for headroom to me - especially for getting in and out of the door - but I suppose that depends on individual height and flexibility.

[gbaglo]

I would think such a radical departure from the current designs would require full payment up front, not just a deposit. Could be difficult to sell if purchase was not completed.

[gocamp]

THW,
Don't know if the info would help or not but these folks installed one over their black tank in an awkard position with shelf and it worked out. After that a number of Rver's combine the black and grey tank for the advantage of grey tank capacity boondocking. I think their black tank stayed, I haven't watched the video in a long time.
Composting Toilet