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Old 06-02-2019, 07:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Jon, why are you fiddling with the standard box and it's location, seems to me you could make a real nice battery holder and place it right where you want it, maybe in the middle of the rear?
Even though the batteries are quite a bit lighter than the lead acid at 31 pounds each, they need to go in something. I moved the battery box as close to center as I could, but the mount for the Lagun table is dead center. I also want to attempt to counterbalance the refrigerator & all th storage I have on the driver's side...
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:46 AM   #22
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Even though the batteries are quite a bit lighter than the lead acid at 31 pounds each, they need to go in something. I moved the battery box as close to center as I could, but the mount for the Lagun table is dead center. I also want to attempt to counterbalance the refrigerator & all th storage I have on the driver's side...
Why do you want them in something? From what I've seen its pretty common to just lock them in some way so they don't move but are seldom actually in a box. I understand using the existing box is convenient but couldn't you just add a board in the bottom of the box to act as a riser, and skip the top? Do you want them fully enclosed because you are using that space also for storage and are worried about cargo bumping the wires?

I'm thinking just a couple of boards screwed to the floor, locking them in position would be fine and no box, but we don't really travel with much in that space yet.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:57 PM   #23
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I see the logic of just compartmentalizing to prevent accidental contact of cargo with electrical components, including the battery, given that the lithium batteries are not supposed to vent. In normal operation, if not defective, damaged, or overcharged, they don't vent... and the contents don't burn. On the other hand, the enclosures used in all production electric vehicles are strong, sealed, and equipped with carefully planned vents; clearly, the professionals who design lithium battery installations have concerns.

I would want them in a structurally protected and sealed metallic box.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:17 PM   #24
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Why do you want them in something? From what I've seen its pretty common to just lock them in some way so they don't move but are seldom actually in a box. I understand using the existing box is convenient but couldn't you just add a board in the bottom of the box to act as a riser, and skip the top? Do you want them fully enclosed because you are using that space also for storage and are worried about cargo bumping the wires?

I'm thinking just a couple of boards screwed to the floor, blocking them in position would be fine and no box, but we don't really travel with much in that space yet.
The boards with straps would work, but since I had the box, all I did was cut it down so the heavier #1/0 wire could run between the batteries. I can still use the cover to protect the battery terminals. While I don't store anything movable in the rear under seat storage area (yet), it is open to the passenger side (as well as the driver's side) under seat storage areas, & I do stow quite a bit of loose stuff in each.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:41 PM   #25
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This conversion is very interesting as this is the way I plan to go when I order my Escape 19 later this year. I noticed in your blog that you changed out the GoPower solar controller because it did not have a Lithium setting. I contacted Battle Born Batteries a few months ago and gave them the specs of the GoPower system. They said if you set the solar controller to the AGM setting it should work for Lithium. Did you find another reason as to why you should change the solar controller?

Good info on the WECO charge controller. I would have left that as is, but will now swap out with the Progressive Dynamics one designed for lithium.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:37 PM   #26
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Well it conversion is 99% finished - just need to tidy up some of the wiring & connect the new feed to the radio.

Overall, thee most difficult part of the conversion was the wearer & tear on my 74 year old knees. Here is the final post.

By the way, I also changed the range fan to the Fabulous Fan & Light while doing the lithium project. I added it to my Escape 21 Modifications page.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:39 PM   #27
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This conversion is very interesting as this is the way I plan to go when I order my Escape 19 later this year. I noticed in your blog that you changed out the GoPower solar controller because it did not have a Lithium setting. I contacted Battle Born Batteries a few months ago and gave them the specs of the GoPower system. They said if you set the solar controller to the AGM setting it should work for Lithium. Did you find another reason as to why you should change the solar controller?

Good info on the WECO charge controller. I would have left that as is, but will now swap out with the Progressive Dynamics one designed for lithium.
While the GoPower controller would probably work, I like to be able to set parameters, and wanted the Bluetooth to iPhone readouts & set ups provided by the Victron Controller & Monitor.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:40 PM   #28
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Thanks Jon. That makes sense re the Go Power controller.
Can't wait to get my 19 and do the lithium conversion as well
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:08 PM   #29
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Thanks Jon!

I anticipate a switch to lithium sooner rather than later. But I will likely be as old as you when it happens.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:29 AM   #30
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I have enjoyed reading about this, Jon. Thanks!
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Old 06-05-2019, 01:34 PM   #31
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I'm pretty impressed with the result. I shut off both the AC & solar feeds to the batteries then fired up the microwave on the inverter, drawing 154 amps. The battery voltage dropped to 12.8 during the run.

After the microwave shut down (and after consuming 6 amp hours) the battery voltage was back up to 13.5V. I plugged the trailer into AC and the new Progressive Dynamics 35 amp converter kicked in, supplying full current (34.7 amps) until the battery reached around 14.2 volts when the charging current tapered off as the batteries climbed to 14.45V, the normal resting voltage, and current dropped to what the trailer was consuming (without the microwave - .3 amps).

I turned the solar panels back on & the solar controller is in float with an output of 0 amps.
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:38 PM   #32
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Pretty cool. Would it be possible to run charging wires directly from your truck's alternator or battery to the new DC-DC converter if you so desired? I guess you'd need a battery isolator in that case so that the truck battery isn't drained. Victron sells those as well.

Some solar controllers (e.g. Bogart) can also function as DC-DC converters. I contacted Victron to ask if theirs had this feature; they said no. Oddly, they didn't mention their separate line of DC-DC converters.
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:23 PM   #33
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Pretty cool. Would it be possible to run charging wires directly from your truck's alternator or battery to the new DC-DC converter if you so desired? I guess you'd need a battery isolator in that case so that the truck battery isn't drained. Victron sells those as well.

Some solar controllers (e.g. Bogart) can also function as DC-DC converters. I contacted Victron to ask if theirs had this feature; they said no. Oddly, they didn't mention their separate line of DC-DC converters.
This is pretty much what Ford has already done. They have an isolation relay that shuts down the charging line when the ignition is off. I do have one problem - on the last trip th trailer DC line gave up the ghost. I'll have Ford look at it with my next oil change.
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Old 06-06-2019, 05:52 PM   #34
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the professionals who design lithium battery installations have concerns.

I would want them in a structurally protected and sealed metallic box.
The people who design electric cars probably have government regulations to follow regarding crash- and fire-resistance. For our use, a sealed metallic box seems like overkill to me. Since the lithium batteries don't vent, I don't see why we can't just strap them down and make sure their terminals are covered. Are you concerned about fire?
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I see the logic of just compartmentalizing to prevent accidental contact of cargo with electrical components, including the battery, given that the lithium batteries are not supposed to vent. In normal operation, if not defective, damaged, or overcharged, they don't vent... and the contents don't burn. On the other hand, the enclosures used in all production electric vehicles are strong, sealed, and equipped with carefully planned vents; clearly, the professionals who design lithium battery installations have concerns.

I would want them in a structurally protected and sealed metallic box.
There are several different lithium chemistry's used in batteries, some safer than others. Electric cars tend to use a blend of Lithium Manganese Oxide with Lithium Nickel Manganese cobalt oxide, whereas the batteries made by Battle Born and other like manufacturers that make lithium batteries to replace the lead acid deep cycle batteries for use in RV's use the Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry which is much safer than other forms of lithium chemistry. They do not need any forms of containment other than to protect the battery from outside damage.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:47 PM   #36
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Another wiring option to consider.

Jon mentioned using a DC to DC converter to charge his new lithium batteries, and upgrading the standard AC charger to do a better job of charging while plugged in.



I think I did something a bit different, and it has worked well for me. I also used a DC to DC converter (also known as a Battery to Battery Charger - mine is a Sterling). I installed a separate charge circuit of #4 cable with an ATV plug at the truck bumper for disconnecting the trailer. The standard charge wire in the 7 pin setup now just turns the charger on. It is far too light to accomplish much charging. The heavy charge cable supplies the BtoB charger directly. Even with the heavy cable, voltage at the batteries would be too low, and improperly regulated for a proper charge, hence the BtoB which raises the voltage as appropriate for a multi stage charge.



Rather than replace the charge guts of the standard AC converter/charger, I just disconnected it from the battery and DC circuits altogether, and used the output exclusively to drive the BtoB charger. Hence, the only charger the batteries ever "see" is the output from the BtoB. Ditto all the DC trailer circuits - they only get power from the BtoB. When driving, the BtoB charger gets juice from the TV alternator, when plugged in, it gets it from the standard charger.



Basic picture is that if you install a good DCtoDC (BtoB) charger, you do not need to upgrade the guts of the standard charger, just use the standard charger to drive the BtoB.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:00 AM   #37
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Jon mentioned using a DC to DC converter to charge his new lithium batteries, and upgrading the standard AC charger to do a better job of charging while plugged in.



I think I did something a bit different, and it has worked well for me. I also used a DC to DC converter (also known as a Battery to Battery Charger - mine is a Sterling). I installed a separate charge circuit of #4 cable with an ATV plug at the truck bumper for disconnecting the trailer. The standard charge wire in the 7 pin setup now just turns the charger on. It is far too light to accomplish much charging. The heavy charge cable supplies the BtoB charger directly. Even with the heavy cable, voltage at the batteries would be too low, and improperly regulated for a proper charge, hence the BtoB which raises the voltage as appropriate for a multi stage charge.



Rather than replace the charge guts of the standard AC converter/charger, I just disconnected it from the battery and DC circuits altogether, and used the output exclusively to drive the BtoB charger. Hence, the only charger the batteries ever "see" is the output from the BtoB. Ditto all the DC trailer circuits - they only get power from the BtoB. When driving, the BtoB charger gets juice from the TV alternator, when plugged in, it gets it from the standard charger.



Basic picture is that if you install a good DCtoDC (BtoB) charger, you do not need to upgrade the guts of the standard charger, just use the standard charger to drive the BtoB.
One question - does the BtoB charger go into the float mode (13.6V) when the battery is full?

As to the reason for upgrading the guts to my converter, even if the WFCO converter could supply the correct charging voltage, I still needed to replace it. My back up to solar is a 900/700 watt propane only generator. When the lithium batteries are down, they draw the full output of the converter. The Escape comes with a 55 amp converter, and the 120V input current would be too much for the generator. I switched to a 35 amp lithium converter.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:41 AM   #38
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Yes, the BtoB is a fully automatic charger that provides bulk, absorption, and float automatically, and can be set up for any battery chemistry. I am using it with AGMs. So far, it has worked flawlessly.


I might have known that you had a reason for the converter upgrade Jon, you seem to know what you are up to! As to the amperage limitations you had to deal with, I expect that my BtoB setup would have accomplished the same thing because the charger limits charge current to 30 amps.



The advantage of your setup is that you have an extra independent charging option. If my BtoB fails, neither the TV or the AC plugin will charge the batteries. OTOH we rarely plug in, and so far, the solar keeps us operating more or less indefinitely even in poor lighting conditions.
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:43 PM   #39
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...
the DC to DC converter I added to bring the tow vehicle charge voltage up to the 14.4 V the lithium batteries like
...
I notice from the pic on your web page that you are using a DC-DC converter that can handle 5 amps. I have found other models in that line that can do more (for a higher cost).

Is there a particular reason for your choice (cost, value measured from tow vehicle, or ?)

Side question: would the same dc-dc process have worked for non lithium-specific solar controller & converter charger section? Or perhaps just not enough amperage capability?
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:46 AM   #40
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I notice from the pic on your web page that you are using a DC-DC converter that can handle 5 amps. I have found other models in that line that can do more (for a higher cost).

Is there a particular reason for your choice (cost, value measured from tow vehicle, or ?)

Side question: would the same dc-dc process have worked for non lithium-specific solar controller & converter charger section? Or perhaps just not enough amperage capability?
The Victron Energy Orion-Tr 12/12-9A is rated at 9 amps, and I've never seen my truck put out much more than that. With 320 watts of solar already on the roof, and my typical long stays, I doubt I'll need much charging from the truck. Plus, since the Victron DC to DC converter does not have built in staging (bulk, absorption, float) I don't want to take a chance on overcharging the batteries.

There are DC to DC converters that have built in electronics to match battery types & also provide multi stage charging. An example is the Sterling BtoB charger Allan mentioned in a previous post.
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