Escape 19 inverter and transfer switch

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by JimHol58

I'm hoping my solar will keep the batteries charged while towing since I'm only going to be powering the fridge which has a 1.3A rated input current and 293W rated input power using a 1500W inverter.

Solar will help, but it won't keep up entirely if you tow with the fridge on DC. Part of the issue is that depending on the tow vehicle, it won't provide enough power via the 7-pin. Another common issue is that the gauge of wire from the 7-pin to the engine compartment is woefully thin and insufficient to carry the voltage required.

I'm not really understanding what you mean when you mention the inverter. That's for inverting DC to AC. Are you saying you want to run the fridge on AC when towing?

Have to say, after thousands of miles and many trips towing with the fridge on propane, we arrive at the destination with a cold fridge and full batteries. Perhaps this is a solution in search of a problem?

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

The inverter itself eats power.

Yup, a generally accepted figure is between 10 and 15% of the amperage load for inverter losses:


Estimating Power Requirements

[Fox hunt]

yes why would you use the inverter ? wouldn't just run on the battery if that was selected?

[John in Santa Cruz]

300 watts from the inverter will take at least 25 amps of 12V DC.

[Fox hunt]

oh! i see you have a two way fridge not a three way

[JimHol58]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Solar will help, but it won't keep up entirely if you tow with the fridge on DC. Part of the issue is that depending on the tow vehicle, it won't provide enough power via the 7-pin. Another common issue is that the gauge of wire from the 7-pin to the engine compartment is woefully thin and insufficient to carry the voltage required.

I'm not really understanding what you mean when you mention the inverter. That's for inverting DC to AC. Are you saying you want to run the fridge on AC when towing?

Have to say, after thousands of miles and many trips towing with the fridge on propane, we arrive at the destination with a cold fridge and full batteries. Perhaps this is a solution in search of a problem?

Yes I want to run the fridge off of AC when towing hence the inverter questions. I know I could run it off of propane like a lot of people do but it's my personal preference not to have the propane system on at all when towing. Just looking for a work around is all.

[cpaharley2008]

You would need at least 4 six volt batteries and 2x170 watt solar to generate enough 12v to convert to 120v and operate the refer, Why the hesitation for propane, it works very well....

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by JimHol58

Yes I want to run the fridge off of AC when towing hence the inverter questions. I know I could run it off of propane like a lot of people do but it's my personal preference not to have the propane system on at all when towing. Just looking for a work around is all.

Only issue with that is efficiency. Since the fridge can operate directly on 12V, that's more efficient on power than inverting DC to AC. That results in loss and an even bigger ding on your batteries.

I've seen folks tow with the fridge on DC after upgrading their connection, mainly running all new thicker wire in the tow vehicle. And I've seen folks tow with the fridge on propane, as we do. I have not seen anyone try it running the fridge on AC using the inverter. My guess is that would be the least efficient way to do it by far.

[gbaglo]

US sources:

Propane Fire Statistics

One of the most common misperceptions about propane is that it causes and is responsible for the bulk of fires in the United States. Statistics presented by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) do not list propane as a leading cause of fires. In fact, propane is not even listed as a source of residential structure fires in the U.S. Some of the factors that are listed as major causes include cooking equipment, heating equipment, intentionally set fires, candles and smoking materials. The cooking and heating equipment listed could be supplied by propane and in some cases it probably was but the point is this; The National Fire Protection Association does not list propane as a leading cause of fires nor as a leading contributor in fires because propane is not as unsafe as it is perceived to be. See for yourself - NFPA Fire Statistics:Major Causes of Fire


How many fires are caused by electrical faults?

Home electrical fires account for an estimated 51,000 fires each year, nearly than 500 deaths, more than 1,400 injuries, and $1.3 billion in property damage. Electrical distribution systems are the third leading cause of home structure fires.Feb 4, 2015

[Hilola]

Regarding vehicle fires, it's difficult to obtain statistics on RV's alone as I'm not aware of anyone that tracks the number of RV fires. The RV industry certainly doesn't want to keep track. Trying to find specific causes is even more difficult. Many times, you will hear a RV fire reported on a news source but rarely do you hear about the actual cause of the fire.

I did find this interesting table on the NFPA website which shows that the overall trend of vehicle fires, on whole, are way down from previous years, despite the fact that there are more vehicles (and RV's) on the road than ever before:

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resear...-vehicle-fires

I attribute this to vehicles being overall safer these days.

Regarding traveling in a RV with the fridge on propane, it's usually a very controversial subject on most RV forums. Somes do and somes don't. I don't due to the simple reason that I feel it's safer not to. I've found over the years that if you pre-chill the fridge and don't open the door until you arrive at your destination, the box remains pretty cold.

Buy hey, your mileage may vary!

[padlin]

Originally Posted by JimHol58

I'm thinking of adding a 1500w inverter to my 19 so while towing I can run my 2-way fridge on 110v, not the propane. Does anyone use an inverter that has a built-in transfer switch? If so, your thoughts? Jim

There's quite a few out there, here's a few on this page https://www.donrowe.com/Inverters-Pu...tch-s/1955.htm although I have no experience with any.

You're going to need a few good size solar panels to provide anywhere close to 30 amps. Might ask around and see what folks have managed to fit on a 19 and see if it'll be enough.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Only issue with that is efficiency. Since the fridge can operate directly on 12V, that's more efficient on power than inverting DC to AC.

True for many people, but in this case it is a two-way (AC and propane) refrigerator, so it can't cool directly on 12V at all, let alone more efficiently.

Even with a three-way refrigerator (AC, DC, and propane) the AC heater is often higher-powered than the DC heater, so it cools better on AC... if you can keep up with the power demand. AC in this case is not more efficient, but it is more effective.

[gbaglo]

My approach to the subject is that propane is the least of my worries. It's no more likely to spontaneously combust than my grandmother, and she's already been cremated.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

True for many people, but in this case it is a two-way (AC and propane) refrigerator, so it can't cool directly on 12V at all, let alone more efficiently.

Even with a three-way refrigerator (AC, DC, and propane) the AC heater is often higher-powered than the DC heater, so it cools better on AC... if you can keep up with the power demand. AC in this case is not more efficient, but it is more effective.

Didn't catch that it was a 2-way fridge. That does change things. If the OP doesn't want to run on propane while towing, perhaps some ice packs in the fridge would be the ticket. Better than arriving at a destination with depleted batteries.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Hilola

I've found over the years that if you pre-chill the fridge and don't open the door until you arrive at your destination, the box remains pretty cold.

Buy hey, your mileage may vary!

For that sort of weekend type use that may work well. But for us folks that use it on an extended basis and carry frozen goods for weeks on end that policy wouldn't work very well.

Ron

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

For that sort of weekend type use that may work well. But for us folks that use it on an extended basis and carry frozen goods for weeks on end that policy wouldn't work very well.

Ron

yeah, or drive 8-10 hours in 100F weather to get to a destination. I don't do that often, but when I do, I wanna get there! once there I might be spending a week or whatever.

[Hilola]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

For that sort of weekend type use that may work well. But for us folks that use it on an extended basis and carry frozen goods for weeks on end that policy wouldn't work very well.

Ron

Ron, I'll have to defer to your greater experience but I've found in my limited travels that the more frozen food or liquids in the freezer, the better it works.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Hilola

Ron, I'll have to defer to your greater experience but I've found in my limited travels that the more frozen food or liquids in the freezer, the better it works.

We have eight blue ice packs in the freezer. If we need more room in the freezer just remove ice packs and put them in the fridge. We've been doing this for years and the fridge/freezer keeps cooler, longer, and a more consistent temperature.

Tried driving down the highway on DC and found freezer burnt food in the freezer. Our final DC straw was when we forgot to change the fridge to propane at the campground only to find a dead battery a couple of hours later.

We always travel with the fridge running on propane now and have for at least 20 years. Has a gas station ever blow up because of a propane fridge? OTOH, I've seen people filling up their vehicles while smoking a cigarette.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Hilola]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

We have eight blue ice packs in the freezer. If we need more room in the freezer just remove ice packs and put them in the fridge. We've been doing this for years and the fridge/freezer keeps cooler, longer, and a more consistent temperature.

Tried driving down the highway on DC and found freezer burnt food in the freezer. Our final DC straw was when we forgot to change the fridge to propane at the campground only to find a dead battery a couple of hours later.

We always travel with the fridge running on propane now and have for at least 20 years. Has a gas station ever blow up because of a propane fridge? OTOH, I've seen people filling up their vehicles while smoking a cigarette.

Enjoy,

Perry

As I said earlier, leaving the propane on while traveling is a very controversial subject with strong feelings on both sides. I'm not trying to sway anyone to my way of thinking, just stating what I prefer to do.

And yes, RV fires happen at gas stations frequently (just google "RV fire at gas station"). Whether they are caused by the propane being on is a matter of debate since one rarely hears the results of the official investigations.

Here is one possible fire started by the propane:

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/5...worker?sba=AAS

[JimHol58]

Thanks Bob, much appreciated! Jim