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04-24-2017, 05:37 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Trailer: 2013 Casita (Sold) 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 286
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HEPVO Mod is easy!
A big shout out to tdf-texas (Tom) for helping Alfredo "Reddog" Morón and me in doing the HEPVO Mod to our shower/bathroom sink drain line while at the Bluebonnet Rally. Benefits include getting rid of the p-trap which in Fred's trailer hung REALLY low below the grey tank and even lower than the axle, taking care of odor coming up the bathroom sink from stagnate water held in the drain pipe because of its upward slope from the shower to grey tank, and making it so we don't have to worry about shutting the little drain before driving. Yes, I know, the drain isn't perhaps a big deal but a low hanging p-trap that can't be drained for freezing temps and an odor free sink drain is a big deal. Thanks again Tom!
__________________
Dave
Never underestimate a man with a Degree in Physical Education.
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04-24-2017, 06:11 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: DFW, Texas
Trailer: 2018 21 Sept 7 2018
Posts: 1,073
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Any pictures on this modification
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04-24-2017, 06:27 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Trailer: 2013 Casita (Sold) 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Any pictures on this modification
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Here's some pics. On ours it ended up being a straight shot - on Fred abd Dora's trailer there are a couple 90 degree elbows. In one of the pictures pipe insulation is shown covering the PEX water lines - that because at the rally 2 people mentioned to me separately that PEX line is not designed with exposure (even indirect) to UV light as an option. Figured it's best not to take a chance and there's nothing wrong with a bit of insulation anyway.
__________________
Dave
Never underestimate a man with a Degree in Physical Education.
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04-24-2017, 06:28 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Trailer: 2013 Casita (Sold) 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 286
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With this mod only about 1 foot of stagnant water is trapped instead of 3-4 feet.
__________________
Dave
Never underestimate a man with a Degree in Physical Education.
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04-24-2017, 08:24 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ,, Oklahoma
Trailer: 17
Posts: 840
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What kinda of trailer does Fred and Dora have? Casita? I know they are known for that low hanging P trap.
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04-24-2017, 09:07 PM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocamp
What kinda of trailer does Fred and Dora have? Casita? I know they are known for that low hanging P trap.
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If it's a Casita, it sure looks an awful lot like a brand new 2017 Escape 21.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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04-24-2017, 10:49 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Retired from Dallas & Full-Timing, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape as of 01/16/17
Posts: 1,312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
If it's a Casita, it sure looks an awful lot like a brand new 2017 Escape 21.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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Gocamp,
We also have a 21' Escape.
Regards,
__________________
Fred M.
"Whoever said retirement was overrated...
...never had an Escape"
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04-24-2017, 11:01 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Travis County, Texas
Trailer: 2015 Esc 21. Formerly, Casita LD (16 & 17)
Posts: 802
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You mean all that time we thought y'all were practicing ladder ball, you were under your trailers installing the Hepvos?
__________________
Mary F Onward, through the fog!
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04-24-2017, 11:18 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Guys, any plans to install a Hepvo to replace the p-trap (I know, its not really a p-trap) at the kitchen sink as well? Any plans on removing the anti-siphon pipes?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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04-25-2017, 06:12 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Trailer: 2013 Casita (Sold) 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocamp
What kinda of trailer does Fred and Dora have? Casita? I know they are known for that low hanging P trap.
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If you had seen the plumbing under Fred and Dora's 21 you would have thought the p-traps on the old Casitas (before Casita switched to HEPVOs) was high in comparison. Somebody apparently got carried away with spacers between their 90 degree fittings.
__________________
Dave
Never underestimate a man with a Degree in Physical Education.
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04-25-2017, 06:13 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
Guys, any plans to install a Hepvo to replace the p-trap (I know, its not really a p-trap) at the kitchen sink as well? Any plans on removing the anti-siphon pipes?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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I am installing one primarily to gain a bit of height under the sink, as well as elimination of the P-trap.
It shows in the instructions for retrofitting to just replace the trap and leave the vent, but in new construction to eliminate the vents at the fixtures, and just have one near the tank. I imagine they just left them in when upgrading as a convenience.
Given there is no trap to siphon out, it would seem they are not needed. This is my best guess anyway.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...structions.pdf
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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04-25-2017, 06:19 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Trailer: 2013 Casita (Sold) 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
Guys, any plans to install a Hepvo to replace the p-trap (I know, its not really a p-trap) at the kitchen sink as well? Any plans on removing the anti-siphon pipes?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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Looking at doing a HEPVO in ours. Haven't checked out removing the anti-siphon pipes though. Could the anti-siphon pipes be why the sink tends to drain a bit slowly? Would be nice to get rid of the sink "p-trap" plumbing as it would make it so winterizing would not require putting antifreeze down the drain if one did not wish to do that although that's not a huge thing.
__________________
Dave
Never underestimate a man with a Degree in Physical Education.
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04-25-2017, 06:59 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H46Driver
Could the anti-siphon pipes be why the sink tends to drain a bit slowly?
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It is well known that proper venting stops the trap from siphoning. If siphoning occurs, the situation that causes it will also slow down your sink draining. If you have ever seen a sink that "gurgles", this is what is happening, there is a negative pressure created down the line.
Though it may not speed it up, proper venting will not slow the draining either. I have heard professionals disagree whether it aids in the draining speed, but none of them suggest it slows it down.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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04-25-2017, 07:11 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Trailer: 2013 Casita (Sold) 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
It is well known that proper venting stops the trap from siphoning. If siphoning occurs, the situation that causes it will also slow down your sink draining. If you have ever seen a sink that "gurgles", this is what is happening, there is a negative pressure created down the line.
Though it may not speed it up, proper venting will not slow the draining either. I have heard professionals disagree whether it aids in the draining speed, but none of them suggest it slows it down.
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Thanks Jim. We have experienced an occassional gurgle in the kitchen sink. Interestingly, after installing the HEPVO in the shower drain, the kitchen sink did drain a little faster and we haven't noted gurgling. No logical explanation there as they only co-exist within the grey tank itself. Hmmmmm.
__________________
Dave
Never underestimate a man with a Degree in Physical Education.
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04-25-2017, 07:40 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H46Driver
Thanks Jim. We have experienced an occassional gurgle in the kitchen sink. Interestingly, after installing the HEPVO in the shower drain, the kitchen sink did drain a little faster and we haven't noted gurgling. No logical explanation there as they only co-exist within the grey tank itself. Hmmmmm.
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Only recently have the air admittance valves (more commonly called cheater vents) been allowed by code to be used here as they do require periodic checking to make certain they operate. The are only allowed in places where venting to the roof is hard to facilitate. It is fine that they stop gasses, but their other purpose is to allow air in to accommodate better draining. Sometimes they fail, though it is extremely rare.
You installing the Hepvo on your shower really does not explain the better sink draining though. There is a cheater vent on that beside the bath too.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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04-25-2017, 08:26 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Abilene, Texas
Trailer: Escape 21' May 2017
Posts: 417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H46Driver
A big shout out to tdf-texas (Tom) for helping Alfredo "Reddog" Morón and me in doing the HEPVO Mod to our shower/bathroom sink drain line while at the Bluebonnet Rally. Benefits include getting rid of the p-trap which in Fred's trailer hung REALLY low below the grey tank and even lower than the axle, taking care of odor coming up the bathroom sink from stagnate water held in the drain pipe because of its upward slope from the shower to grey tank, and making it so we don't have to worry about shutting the little drain before driving. Yes, I know, the drain isn't perhaps a big deal but a low hanging p-trap that can't be drained for freezing temps and an odor free sink drain is a big deal. Thanks again Tom!
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Just wondering if you, Tom and Fred will give lessons on how to do this at Osoyoos !!! we would love to have this done....
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04-25-2017, 08:56 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: East Dover, Vermont
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA!
Posts: 678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
It is well known that proper venting stops the trap from siphoning. If siphoning occurs, the situation that causes it will also slow down your sink draining. If you have ever seen a sink that "gurgles", this is what is happening, there is a negative pressure created down the line.
Though it may not speed it up, proper venting will not slow the draining either. I have heard professionals disagree whether it aids in the draining speed, but none of them suggest it slows it down.
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Jim you are missing part of the equation here. It is not just about siphoning...When a plug of water tries to go down the drain it tries force the air ahead of it down, if there is no place for the air to get out below the plug of water, like a vent, the sink will not drain properly and gurgle to let the air come up. Thus a vent whether roof or under cabinet allows the pipe to expel the air and the water to go down smoothly and if the vent and drain is properly sized and routed, quicker too.
You are right that under the right conditions you may siphon the water out of the trap and thus let gasses in. Although this is more likely to be caused by too long of a run from the sink to the trap and the velocity of the water empties the trap.
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04-25-2017, 09:07 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Retired from Dallas & Full-Timing, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape as of 01/16/17
Posts: 1,312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary F
You mean all that time we thought y'all were practicing ladder ball, you were under your trailers installing the Hepvos?
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LOL! We did the Hepvos on Sunday afternoon...then we played ladderball!
Fred M.
__________________
Fred M.
"Whoever said retirement was overrated...
...never had an Escape"
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04-25-2017, 09:15 AM
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#19
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Total speculation on my part here, but it would sure look nice to have an Escape minus two roof anti-siphon vents, built that way from the factory. If Hepvo valve are installed during construction, there's no need for the pipes to the roof. Of course, this is assuming the codes Reace has to contend with would allow it.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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04-25-2017, 09:17 AM
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#20
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,040
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ETI will not install Hepvo's. I asked.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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