HEPVO Mod is easy!

[H46Driver]

A big shout out to tdf-texas (Tom) for helping Alfredo "Reddog" Morón and me in doing the HEPVO Mod to our shower/bathroom sink drain line while at the Bluebonnet Rally. Benefits include getting rid of the p-trap which in Fred's trailer hung REALLY low below the grey tank and even lower than the axle, taking care of odor coming up the bathroom sink from stagnate water held in the drain pipe because of its upward slope from the shower to grey tank, and making it so we don't have to worry about shutting the little drain before driving. Yes, I know, the drain isn't perhaps a big deal but a low hanging p-trap that can't be drained for freezing temps and an odor free sink drain is a big deal. Thanks again Tom!

[Oldtimer]

Any pictures on this modification

[H46Driver]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Any pictures on this modification

Here's some pics. On ours it ended up being a straight shot - on Fred abd Dora's trailer there are a couple 90 degree elbows. In one of the pictures pipe insulation is shown covering the PEX water lines - that because at the rally 2 people mentioned to me separately that PEX line is not designed with exposure (even indirect) to UV light as an option. Figured it's best not to take a chance and there's nothing wrong with a bit of insulation anyway.

[H46Driver]

With this mod only about 1 foot of stagnant water is trapped instead of 3-4 feet.

[gocamp]

What kinda of trailer does Fred and Dora have? Casita? I know they are known for that low hanging P trap.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gocamp

What kinda of trailer does Fred and Dora have? Casita? I know they are known for that low hanging P trap.

If it's a Casita, it sure looks an awful lot like a brand new 2017 Escape 21.

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[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

If it's a Casita, it sure looks an awful lot like a brand new 2017 Escape 21.

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Gocamp,

We also have a 21' Escape.


Regards,

[Mary F]

You mean all that time we thought y'all were practicing ladder ball, you were under your trailers installing the Hepvos?

[rbryan4]

Guys, any plans to install a Hepvo to replace the p-trap (I know, its not really a p-trap) at the kitchen sink as well? Any plans on removing the anti-siphon pipes?

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[H46Driver]

Originally Posted by gocamp

What kinda of trailer does Fred and Dora have? Casita? I know they are known for that low hanging P trap.

If you had seen the plumbing under Fred and Dora's 21 you would have thought the p-traps on the old Casitas (before Casita switched to HEPVOs) was high in comparison. Somebody apparently got carried away with spacers between their 90 degree fittings.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Guys, any plans to install a Hepvo to replace the p-trap (I know, its not really a p-trap) at the kitchen sink as well? Any plans on removing the anti-siphon pipes?

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I am installing one primarily to gain a bit of height under the sink, as well as elimination of the P-trap.

It shows in the instructions for retrofitting to just replace the trap and leave the vent, but in new construction to eliminate the vents at the fixtures, and just have one near the tank. I imagine they just left them in when upgrading as a convenience.

Given there is no trap to siphon out, it would seem they are not needed. This is my best guess anyway.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...structions.pdf

[H46Driver]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Guys, any plans to install a Hepvo to replace the p-trap (I know, its not really a p-trap) at the kitchen sink as well? Any plans on removing the anti-siphon pipes?

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Looking at doing a HEPVO in ours. Haven't checked out removing the anti-siphon pipes though. Could the anti-siphon pipes be why the sink tends to drain a bit slowly? Would be nice to get rid of the sink "p-trap" plumbing as it would make it so winterizing would not require putting antifreeze down the drain if one did not wish to do that although that's not a huge thing.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by H46Driver

Could the anti-siphon pipes be why the sink tends to drain a bit slowly?

It is well known that proper venting stops the trap from siphoning. If siphoning occurs, the situation that causes it will also slow down your sink draining. If you have ever seen a sink that "gurgles", this is what is happening, there is a negative pressure created down the line.

Though it may not speed it up, proper venting will not slow the draining either. I have heard professionals disagree whether it aids in the draining speed, but none of them suggest it slows it down.

[H46Driver]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

It is well known that proper venting stops the trap from siphoning. If siphoning occurs, the situation that causes it will also slow down your sink draining. If you have ever seen a sink that "gurgles", this is what is happening, there is a negative pressure created down the line.

Though it may not speed it up, proper venting will not slow the draining either. I have heard professionals disagree whether it aids in the draining speed, but none of them suggest it slows it down.

Thanks Jim. We have experienced an occassional gurgle in the kitchen sink. Interestingly, after installing the HEPVO in the shower drain, the kitchen sink did drain a little faster and we haven't noted gurgling. No logical explanation there as they only co-exist within the grey tank itself. Hmmmmm.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by H46Driver

Thanks Jim. We have experienced an occassional gurgle in the kitchen sink. Interestingly, after installing the HEPVO in the shower drain, the kitchen sink did drain a little faster and we haven't noted gurgling. No logical explanation there as they only co-exist within the grey tank itself. Hmmmmm.

Only recently have the air admittance valves (more commonly called cheater vents) been allowed by code to be used here as they do require periodic checking to make certain they operate. The are only allowed in places where venting to the roof is hard to facilitate. It is fine that they stop gasses, but their other purpose is to allow air in to accommodate better draining. Sometimes they fail, though it is extremely rare.

You installing the Hepvo on your shower really does not explain the better sink draining though. There is a cheater vent on that beside the bath too.

[The Quilting Lady]

Originally Posted by H46Driver

A big shout out to tdf-texas (Tom) for helping Alfredo "Reddog" Morón and me in doing the HEPVO Mod to our shower/bathroom sink drain line while at the Bluebonnet Rally. Benefits include getting rid of the p-trap which in Fred's trailer hung REALLY low below the grey tank and even lower than the axle, taking care of odor coming up the bathroom sink from stagnate water held in the drain pipe because of its upward slope from the shower to grey tank, and making it so we don't have to worry about shutting the little drain before driving. Yes, I know, the drain isn't perhaps a big deal but a low hanging p-trap that can't be drained for freezing temps and an odor free sink drain is a big deal. Thanks again Tom!

Just wondering if you, Tom and Fred will give lessons on how to do this at Osoyoos!!! we would love to have this done....

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

It is well known that proper venting stops the trap from siphoning. If siphoning occurs, the situation that causes it will also slow down your sink draining. If you have ever seen a sink that "gurgles", this is what is happening, there is a negative pressure created down the line.

Though it may not speed it up, proper venting will not slow the draining either. I have heard professionals disagree whether it aids in the draining speed, but none of them suggest it slows it down.

Jim you are missing part of the equation here. It is not just about siphoning...When a plug of water tries to go down the drain it tries force the air ahead of it down, if there is no place for the air to get out below the plug of water, like a vent, the sink will not drain properly and gurgle to let the air come up. Thus a vent whether roof or under cabinet allows the pipe to expel the air and the water to go down smoothly and if the vent and drain is properly sized and routed, quicker too.

You are right that under the right conditions you may siphon the water out of the trap and thus let gasses in. Although this is more likely to be caused by too long of a run from the sink to the trap and the velocity of the water empties the trap.

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by Mary F

You mean all that time we thought y'all were practicing ladder ball, you were under your trailers installing the Hepvos?

LOL! We did the Hepvos on Sunday afternoon...then we played ladderball!


Fred M.

[rbryan4]

Total speculation on my part here, but it would sure look nice to have an Escape minus two roof anti-siphon vents, built that way from the factory. If Hepvo valve are installed during construction, there's no need for the pipes to the roof. Of course, this is assuming the codes Reace has to contend with would allow it.

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[Donna D.]

ETI will not install Hepvo's. I asked.