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Old 08-23-2021, 05:43 PM   #21
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I have owned at least 4 Escapes and at least 4 other brands of trailers, all with air conditioning and each one was different. I think with Escape's insulation and a smaller unit, 11,000 or less would be adequate. It is better to have the unit operate and set off at the set point versus you manually turning on/off for cooling. The larger the a/c, the quicker it will chill you and then turn off versus operating to make you feel comfortable.
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Old 08-23-2021, 06:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I have owned at least 4 Escapes and at least 4 other brands of trailers, all with air conditioning and each one was different. I think with Escape's insulation and a smaller unit, 11,000 or less would be adequate. It is better to have the unit operate and set off at the set point versus you manually turning on/off for cooling. The larger the a/c, the quicker it will chill you and then turn off versus operating to make you feel comfortable.
Certainly not expert here but You live in PA, I live in FL... I have several friends that installed the 13.500 and tell me I will hate myself if I install the 9500 BTU unit. 1 took a 11000 BTU Dometic out of a Sprinter... Maybe I will come to hate the 13,500 and swap out but will try it
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Old 08-23-2021, 06:52 PM   #23
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Certainly not expert here but You live in PA, I live in FL... I have several friends that installed the 13.500 and tell me I will hate myself if I install the 9500 BTU unit. 1 took a 11000 BTU Dometic out of a Sprinter... Maybe I will come to hate the 13,500 and swap out but will try it
But we have wheels on our homes and I'm not expecting to camp within a days drive of my home.......go north in summer and south in winter.
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Old 08-23-2021, 07:03 PM   #24
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But we have wheels on our homes and I'm not expecting to camp within a days drive of my home.......go north in summer and south in winter.
Thats kind of my point... You go North in the summer from Pa.... I'm In Florida and will be camping in the south in Fl in summers.. I will get a boondocking trip to Erie ,Pa several times. The company I work for owns a shipyard there.
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Old 08-23-2021, 07:13 PM   #25
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Need the data

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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I have owned at least 4 Escapes and at least 4 other brands of trailers, all with air conditioning and each one was different. I think with Escape's insulation and a smaller unit, 11,000 or less would be adequate. It is better to have the unit operate and set off at the set point versus you manually turning on/off for cooling. The larger the a/c, the quicker it will chill you and then turn off versus operating to make you feel comfortable.
We qualitatively know the Dometic 11k BTU did not keep our trailer comfortable during summer conditions and for the way we use the trailer. Noise is another issue.

We want quantitative data on the new AC3400. We will collect data before speculating.

Attached shows the data we are collecting for our new Isotherm Cruise 195. This is the power consumption histogram, collected every minute for the first 8.5 days. These settings kept compartment temps 36º/10º. We changed the temps to 36º/0º which is where we plan to operate. Right now the data is showing that our calculation of about 1 to 1.5 kWh per day is reasonable - or about one Battleborn battery. In many months, we will know.

We are instrumenting our trailer to collect temp, humidity, and power data for the AC3400.

On tuning, one issue all Escape-Houghton owners will face is air distribution. Houghton specifies "...outlets are at least 16" away from cupoards, walls, & bulkheads that can redirect conditioned air back into the air intake." Our side vents are 13-3/4" and 5-1/2" from the walls or cabinets. These units will require some airflow or temp sensor location tuning. DWM3 describes one approach. mfschu describes another. We are closing off the vent at 5-1/2" first.

We will see what numbers describe our personal comfort zone and how the AC3400 operates during hot summer days when we need it the most. If we oversized, the data will show that.

73/gus
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Old 10-09-2021, 04:44 PM   #26
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Been following this thread for the sound attenuation part. I’ve put the soundproofing materials in my inner fan and plenum area as described in rotorbudd’s Dometic A/C dissection post and it lowered noise by about 3 dB. Using the same sound measurement app, and running the FAN only (no A/C compressor) I get readings of 63/66 (lo/high fan) with the phone on the counter. Any way to run this unit on fan only and come up with dB numbers? If it drops noise down to low 50’s that’s a good deal. Also, how is this unit powered and what did you do with the old thermostat? I’ve found that the standard gas wall heater fan works fine in some pretty cold weather without the A/C unit fan running and it works off the existing thermostat on Auto. Does this unit work constantly powered by utilizing the remote as a switch/thermostat? If so, is there a hot wire up there now with the current unit?
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Old 10-09-2021, 06:08 PM   #27
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Measurements with compressor running

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Originally Posted by Tford View Post
Been following this thread for the sound attenuation part. I’ve put the soundproofing materials in my inner fan and plenum area as described in rotorbudd’s Dometic A/C dissection post and it lowered noise by about 3 dB. Using the same sound measurement app, and running the FAN only (no A/C compressor) I get readings of 63/66 with the phone on the counter.Any way to run this unit on fan only and come up with dB numbers? If it drops noise down to low 50’s that’s a good deal.
The numbers above, 71 dB Dometic, 60 dB Houghton high fan, and 51 dB Houghton low fan were all with compressor running.

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Also, how is this unit powered...
Houghton AC3400 power comes from the same 12 AWG NM-B (ROMEX) wiring as for the Dometic. This mains wiring is in the 14x14" ceiling opening. The Houghton is AC mains power only, and it does not require a 12 VDC connection.

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Originally Posted by Tford View Post
...and what did you do with the old thermostat?
We earlier replaced the original Dometic thermostat with the Micro-Air Easy Touch thermostat. We removed the Easy Touch, and we are giving this to a friend.

We control the Houghton using the the remote control or via manual touch control on the air distribution box. The AC3400 does not have a separate wall-mounted thermostat.

The AC3400 temperature sensor is in the return air plenum in the ceiling. You can find several forum threads on how others learn to use the Houghton temperature setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tford View Post
I’ve found that the standard gas wall heater fan works fine in some pretty cold weather without the A/C unit fan running and it works off the existing thermostat on Auto. Does this unit work constantly powered by utilizing the remote as a switch/thermostat? If so, is there a hot wire up there now with the current unit?
To make our Dometic DFSAD12 furnace work, we installed a Dometic (38453) off white thermostat where the Dometic AC thermostat had been.

We used the red and black wires in the existing thermostat cable that runs up to where we removed the Dometic AC unit. We connected these red/black wires to the two blue wires that are also in the ceiling where the original Dometic AC was. The blue wires are the control wires for our Dometic DFSAD12 furnace. This wiring reuse allowed us to quickly get the furnace operational without the need for more wiring.

The AC3400 has an "auto" mode that will switch between cool or heat as required, independent of the propane furnace.

73/gus
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Old 10-09-2021, 08:32 PM   #28
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Thanks!
So if I read this right, if I leave the current thermostat wired as is it will still run the heater like it does now on Auto and there’s wiring up in the roof to power the new A/C unit and I can control it either thru the panel on the unit or thru the remote……
I reckon the panel on the unit is lighted….as in something else to cover up for indoor light pollution! If you get a chance in the future..maybe run just the fan and see what dB numbers are…be interesting to see what the compressor adds to it.
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Old 10-09-2021, 08:56 PM   #29
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Not sure on reusing Dometic AC thermostat for just furnace

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Originally Posted by Tford View Post
Thanks!
So if I read this right, if I leave the current thermostat wired as is it will still run the heater like it does now on Auto and there’s wiring up in the roof to power the new A/C unit and I can control it either thru the panel on the unit or thru the remote……
I am not sure that will work because of the Dometic thermostat interface unit. You would need to check the Dometic wiring diagrams. We removed the interface unit because the AC mains power also went into that box. See attached image of the Dometic interface unit before removal.

Plus, you would have a hard time finding space for the Dometic interface unit inside the Houghton air distribution box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tford View Post
I reckon the panel on the unit is lighted….as in something else to cover up for indoor light pollution!
The "display" button on the remote turns off the display on the air distribution box. The remote control goes dark after a few seconds. There is no additional light pollution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tford View Post
If you get a chance in the future..maybe run just the fan and see what dB numbers are…be interesting to see what the compressor adds to it.
Will try that when we get home.

73/gus
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Old 10-10-2021, 08:56 AM   #30
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So if I have this right, I can probably replace my current thermostat with just a simple one for the heater to work off its own blower, then power up the new (quieter!) A/C unit with its built in thermostat and remote…..
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Old 10-10-2021, 10:47 AM   #31
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Furnace becomes separate with own thermostat

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So if I have this right, I can probably replace my current thermostat with just a simple one for the heater to work off its own blower, then power up the new (quieter!) A/C unit with its built in thermostat and remote…..
Yes, this is correct. This is what we did, making the correct wiring connections in the overhead.

73/gus
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Old 10-10-2021, 10:57 AM   #32
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Thanks neighbor!!
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Old 10-15-2021, 06:36 PM   #33
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Quiet

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If you get a chance in the future..maybe run just the fan and see what dB numbers are…be interesting to see what the compressor adds to it.
With fan on low, no compressor, NIOSH sound level app reading is about 48 dB (1 minute average) measured with iPhone on kitchen countertop between cooktop and sink. With fan on high, reading is just under 59 dB. With fan on low, compressor running, reading is about 55 dB. Fan on high, compressor running, just under 61 dB. The fan noise is dominant on high.

These are pretty consistent with initial measurements: "compressor on and high fan is about 60 dB and about 51 dB with compressor on and low fan"].

My measurement is also consistent with the Houghton advertised "With a low decibel level of 59.7 at the highest indoors,..." and listed:
Indoor High speed: 56 decibels
Indoor Low speed: 47 decibels
Outdoor: 67 decibels

These measurements included one USB powered 8" fan running on low near the front dinette, which is our normal configuration.

Measurement location is in the Mesa/Apache Junction KOA, so we have some outside noise intrusion. With trailer closed up, we occasionally hear some "loud car" noise. The neighbors behind us do have some music playing (Friday nite).

Hope this helps.

73/gus
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gklott View Post
With fan on low, no compressor, NIOSH sound level app reading is about 48 dB (1 minute average) measured with iPhone on kitchen countertop between cooktop and sink. With fan on high, reading is just under 59 dB. With fan on low, compressor running, reading is about 55 dB. Fan on high, compressor running, just under 61 dB. The fan noise is dominant on high.

These are pretty consistent with initial measurements: "compressor on and high fan is about 60 dB and about 51 dB with compressor on and low fan"].

My measurement is also consistent with the Houghton advertised "With a low decibel level of 59.7 at the highest indoors,..." and listed:
Indoor High speed: 56 decibels
Indoor Low speed: 47 decibels
Outdoor: 67 decibels

These measurements included one USB powered 8" fan running on low near the front dinette, which is our normal configuration.

Measurement location is in the Mesa/Apache Junction KOA, so we have some outside noise intrusion. With trailer closed up, we occasionally hear some "loud car" noise. The neighbors behind us do have some music playing (Friday nite).

Hope this helps.

73/gus
Your measurements seem consistent with the data Advanced RV published when they tested the Houghton versus Dometic Penguin and Coleman Mach 10 NDQ. You’ll notice they call it the “Advanced RV Quiet AC” because at least at the time they were claiming exclusive distribution rights and not revealing the brand.
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Old 10-25-2021, 11:45 AM   #35
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Our 21C has finally arrived. I am planning on installing the Houghton AC this weekend. Since we ordered the 21C without AC I will need to add the breaker. I have been unable to locate where it states the correct breaker size needed. Is a 20 amp the correct size breaker? I have located the listing for correct types to use just not the appropriate size for the H3400.

Thanks

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Old 10-25-2021, 12:26 PM   #36
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20A breaker

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Originally Posted by Ryanb-72 View Post
Our 21C has finally arrived. I am planning on installing the Houghton AC this weekend. Since we ordered the 21C without AC I will need to add the breaker. I have been unable to locate where it states the correct breaker size needed. Is a 20 amp the correct size breaker? I have located the listing for correct types to use just not the appropriate size for the H3400.
The ETI-installed wiring to our AC roof unit is 12/2 AWG 90C NM-B. Accordingly, I use an Eaton Model #BRN120A1CS combo AFCI/GFCI 20A 1-pole breaker.

If you are installing the wiring, I recommend using Ancor triplex 12/3 AWG, flat, 105C, boat cable.

In making the AC3400 connections, I also recommend using Ideal splice cap copper crimp connectors (2006S) with matching cap insulators (2007). I do not recommend using wire nuts in any RV application. ABYC E-11 does not recommend wire nuts in any marine application.

73/gus
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Ac3400_wireCrimp_IMG_4118.jpg   ac3400_wireCaps_IMG_4120.jpg  
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanb-72 View Post
Our 21C has finally arrived. I am planning on installing the Houghton AC this weekend. Since we ordered the 21C without AC I will need to add the breaker. I have been unable to locate where it states the correct breaker size needed. Is a 20 amp the correct size breaker? I have located the listing for correct types to use just not the appropriate size for the H3400.

Thanks

Ryan
Ryan: Maximum current listed for the 3400 model is 15.5A. Standard practice is to load a breaker no more than 80%. A 20A breaker should be perfect. There should already be a 12 AWG wire up to the roof so you should be set there.
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:41 PM   #38
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ABYC has no teeth...recommendations only...for the Marine industry. I'm not disagreeing with your suggestions but too many peeps think ABYC is law...It ain't
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:16 PM   #39
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Standards - not statutes

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ABYC has no teeth...recommendations only...for the Marine industry. I'm not disagreeing with your suggestions but too many peeps think ABYC is law...It ain't
Agree - no standard is "the law" until the jurisdiction having authority passes a statute requiring standards compliance. Consensus standards (e.g., CSA, NFPA, ABYC, ANSI, ASME) contain best practices, and CSA Z240 and NFPA 1192 contain RV best practices. ABYC E-11 contains best practice for the marine electrical systems.

73/gus
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Old 11-01-2021, 08:18 AM   #40
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The Houghton 3400 is installed. I wanted to thank everyone here on the forum for the help especially gklott for the detailed write up he provided (I referenced it several times throughout the day). The install went as previously described with one exception. I was not replacing an A/C unit but installing one where the factory vent was installed. The main difference being the factory vent is screwed down from the top with a LOT of screws all covered in Dicor sealant. After taking everything apart from the inside I bent the cross member on the vent until it broke off so I could squeeze through from the bottom side to access the screws on top. I used a small chisel to get under the sealant and then had to peel it back off of each screw. once all the screws were removed I had to use a putty knife to wedge between the gelcoat and sealant to separate the outer vent ring from the shell. A word of caution here, the gel coat is thin, several places it pealed off with the Dicor. Once the vent was finally removed the rest of the install was as previously described and went quite well. So again a BIG THANKS to everyone and if I can answer any questions I would love to help as much as I can.
Ryan
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