Kitchen Sink Hepvo Install

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Sorry Donna, I should have said that Escape doesn't meet NFPA 1192 which is the regulating government standard.

NFPA 1192 "This standard establishes fire and life safety criteria for recreational vehicles to provide protection from loss of life from fire and explosion."


Maybe because a plumbing issue would only make a mess, but never fire or explosion?


I'm not going to become a member to read it:
https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stand...tail?code=1192

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

NFPA 1192 "This standard establishes fire and life safety criteria for recreational vehicles to provide protection from loss of life from fire and explosion."


Maybe because a plumbing issue would only make a mess, but never fire or explosion?


I'm not going to become a member to read it:
https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stand...tail?code=1192

You have to sign up as a member but reading the codes is free. Just click the "Free Access" button on the website you referenced. Of course, I have my own copy but it is paid for and I'm not allowed to give it out.

The banning of S traps was due to people getting sick from the sewer vent gas. So it's about the life safety part.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

edit: Donna D corrected me rightly - The standards that have to be met are NFPA 1192 and not RVIA.

No, I corrected you rightly, by citing NFPA 1192.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

No, I corrected you rightly, by citing NFPA 1192.

[AuthorSP]

Seems like the Hepvo valve would be easier for them to install. Fewer pipes to turn and line up. I hope they go to that.

[cpaharley2008]

Are we talking sewer as in black tank waste or liquid waste from grey tank? Was not aware the grey tank off gassing was bad.....

[Jwinfrey]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Are we talking sewer as in black tank waste or liquid waste from grey tank? Was not aware the grey tank off gassing was bad.....

You would have to be connected to sewer, gray tank valve open, and one of the conditions exist where the trap would be empty. Sewer gas could come up through the sink drain. A lot of “ifs”. It would have been just as easy to do it right as do it wrong, but I’ll enjoy my new 5.0 and correct it if and when I notice a problem.

[cpaharley2008]

Yes, I only open my drains when dumping, even if connected.

[tdf-texas]

I understand that for some owners of an Escape trailer, that a S trap installed for their sink is not an issue for them. The S trap is connected to the gray tank and sometimes but rarely does a smell issue come from there.

Here's why I keep bringing this issue up over and over. For years, Escape has been illegally installing S traps and, if any DMV in any of the 50 states inspects the trailer, the trailer could not be titled as it violates NFPA codes. Escape trailers, with an installed S trap, is illegal to import into the US as well. Escape has to quit doing this.

The S trap installs as well as the NFPA/NEC electrical code violations must stop. Why am I posting this info here? I have informed Escape for over four years that a S trap is illegal and the non-response from both Reace and Karl means that they don't care unless it affects sales.

So here's what I suggest. If you are purchasing an Escape, let them know that they MUST correct the S trap. When potential sales are affected, they will correct this.

The only other solution that I know of is to inform US Customs and Border Protection and US Congress (my congressman is Ted Cruz) of the code violations and have Escape's license to import revoked. I would rather Escape takes care of this before such drastic measures take place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0N2Wmg5oDg

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Here's why I keep bringing this issue up over and over. For years, Escape has been illegally installing S traps and, if any DMV in any of the 50 states inspects the trailer, the trailer could not be titled as it violates NFPA codes. Escape trailers, with an installed S trap, is illegal to import into the US as well. Escape has to quit doing this.

I guess state trailer inspectors know less than we think. I've never read where anyone was denied title, license and registration after a state inspection.

Tom, you live in Texas. Wasn't your trailer inspected?

[cpaharley2008]

In Pennsylvania they are only concerned with proper light operation as well as tires and brakes and bearings.......my new 2016 Escape had to have the bearings adjusted during my registration inspection, or maybe not because the trailer was new. But for the $30 fee, I paid it....

[AuthorSP]

It looks relatively easy to replace the sink trap with a Hepvo. How hard is it to replace the shower drain trap?

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I guess state trailer inspectors know less than we think. I've never read where anyone was denied title, license and registration after a state inspection.

Tom, you live in Texas. Wasn't your trailer inspected?

I guess all it would take is someone with an agenda to send a registered letter to the Oregon DMV with detailed information of the code violations by Escape to have all Escape title, license and registration denied.

Would you like for me to take care of that? Me neither. Escape needs to decide to fix this on their own (with a little encouragement).

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by AuthorSP

It looks relatively easy to replace the sink trap with a Hepvo. How hard is it to replace the shower drain trap?

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...21-a-9445.html

But the shower drain trap is a P trap so not an issue unless Escape installed an air admittance valve between the fiberglass walls like my 21.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Tom, you live in Texas. Wasn't your trailer inspected?

I do live in TX and recently my 5.0 was "inspected" in order to gain title and license registration. The statutory scope of the two required one-time inspections ('safety' and 'VIN') is limited to

• Brake, turn, and running lights
• Tires, brakes, and safety chains
• Display of the 'VIN placard' with attestation of compliance with applicable FMVSS requirements by the manufacturer
• Presentation of the 'properly completed' USDOT Form HS-7 again attesting compliance with applicable FMVSS and adding mention of compliance with applicable NHTSA regulations

I think we all know that likely no 'authority' undertakes or exercises any effective inspection, police, or enforcement action in relation to anything else (certainly not house-electrical or plumbing matters) on RV trailers, in any jurisdiction.

I think we all also know that's not the point of Tom's posts / suggestions / comments. To go there is, respectfully and IMO, to create a straw-man.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Centex

I do live in TX and recently my 5.0 was "inspected" in order to gain title and license registration. The statutory scope of the two required one-time inspections ('safety' and 'VIN') is limited to

• Brake, turn, and running lights
• Tires, brakes, and safety chains
• Display of the 'VIN placard' with attestation of compliance with applicable FMVSS requirements by the manufacturer
• Presentation of the 'properly completed' USDOT Form HS-7 again attesting compliance with applicable FMVSS and adding mention of compliance with applicable NHTSA regulations

I think we all know that likely no 'authority' undertakes or exercises any effective inspection, police, or enforcement action in relation to anything else (certainly not house-electrical or plumbing matters) on RV trailers, in any jurisdiction.

I think we all also know that's not the point of Tom's posts / suggestions / comments.

Thanks! You are right in that all I'm trying to do is get Escape to stop putting the S traps in their trailers. Sometimes to get a company off procrastination, you have to jerk their chain to get them to do anything. I'm trying to jerk their chain as hard as I can.

[Centex]

... and I, for one, appreciate what you do here to inform members about best-practices regarding such matters, Tom. Whether with the end-effect of change by ETI or providing members with info they can use to improve their own trailers if they so choose, it is appreciated and I hope you keep it up.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

I guess all it would take is someone with an agenda to send a registered letter to the Oregon DMV with detailed information of the code violations by Escape to have all Escape title, license and registration denied.

Would you like for me to take care of that? Me neither. Escape needs to decide to fix this on their own (with a little encouragement).

😳 Really? If you look at that video and use a shred of common sense you will see that it would be almost impossible for any of the scenarios to occur that would cause the s trap to drain. Flush your toilet all you want, it’s not even connected to your sink drain and will effect it in no way. Go ahead and try to dump enough water down an Escape sink to pull the water out of an S trap. Bet you can’t do it. The plumbing on an RV is NOT the same as in your home. Maybe get your senators to fix your states power grid before worrying about our Escapes. “Common Sense” least common of all the senses.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Chotch

�� Really? If you look at that video and use a shred of common sense you will see that it would be almost impossible for any of the scenarios to occur that would cause the s trap to drain. Flush your toilet all you want, it’s not even connected to your sink drain and will effect it in no way. Go ahead and try to dump enough water down an Escape sink to pull the water out of an S trap. Bet you can’t do it. The plumbing on an RV is NOT the same as in your home. Maybe get your senators to fix your states power grid before worrying about our Escapes. “Common Sense” least common of all the senses.

I always try to read previous posts before replying.
"I understand that for some owners of an Escape trailer, that a S trap installed for their sink is not an issue for them. The S trap is connected to the gray tank and sometimes but rarely does a smell issue come from there."

That the S trap is not an issue for you doesn't make it legal in Connecticut. Are you disagreeing that the S trap should not be installed in the Escapes?

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

I guess all it would take is someone with an agenda to send a registered letter to the Oregon DMV with detailed information of the code violations by Escape to have all Escape title, license and registration denied.

You are assuming a level of diligence and energy on the part of DMV staff that I suspect does not exist.

The simple fact is, Escape is building these incorrectly. They don't care and I really bet no regulators care either. There's no stormtrooper force of RV compliance officers standing by awaiting your call.




I also have to agree with Chotch on what's going on here a bit. The reason S-traps are bad in a house is that fixtures like toilets can send large slugs of water through pipes. These can, and will pull the water out of a nearby S-pipe. But in a trailer where the sink and shower are each independently connected to a tank, it's just nothing like a typical home in operation.


Is a s-trap code in a trailer? I dunno. Is there really way for a trailer S-pipe to have the seal sucked out of it? Probably not.