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01-22-2018, 09:20 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21; previously a 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 78
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Lagun Table Mount Install - Thoughts
This month I installed a Lagun table mount in our new (Nov 17) Escape 21 with the U-shaped dinette. I’m a retired structural engineer so I looked at this install primarily with stability and strength in mind. There are certainly many ways to successfully install the table support. Here are some thoughts and a description of how I went about it:
The original construction is basically just a wood frame covered with very thin plywood. It’s conservative to assume the plywood has no real strength and to design the install such that all load from the table (vertical weight and resultant moment, think lever arm) transfers directly to the wood frame structure, which is well designed in the U dinette benches.
I first filled the space within the wood frame with 3/4in plywood then installed a wood plate over this plywood attached directly to the framing. In my case, I used some 3/8” oak I had left over from another project.
Then I installed two steel brackets between the new vertical “wall” of this back bench and the floor of the trailer. I used these:
https://www.wwhardware.com/a-m-hardw...am-black-16252
They are 8in x 12in shelf support brackets made of 1/8in steel by these folks:
High Quality Support Brackets for Countertops, Islands, Workstations, Shelves & Vanities | A&M Hardware
They are much stronger than necessary but, more importantly, they are very stiff. Cheap too, less than $20/pair plus shipping.
I attached these brackets using 1/4in threaded inserts and 1/4in bolts. By far the weakest part of the bracket install is the threaded insert/plywood connection in the trailer floor. A better solution would be to use through bolts but that’s overkill.
The good news is that the 3rd part of the install takes much of the load away from these brackets. I, like others have suggested, installed a 3/4in x 1/8in by 48in long steel angle along the top edge of the back bench “wall” of the U-shaped dinette. If you look at how the structure is built, you can see that now the load is transferred to the rest of the framing in the benches. I see this brace as very important in the Lagun table install as it greatly reduces movement of the Lagun mount and reduces the chance of pulling out any of the screws or bolts used in the brackets.
I installed a temporary table that is about 34.5in x 21in to try out. The length allows the table top to be used as the bed support. We shall see if this table suits us next month on our first real outing – Quartzite, AZ. I am posting a few photos that should help explain my install.
I hope this helps,
Bill
__________________
Bill
Idaho Falls
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01-22-2018, 09:28 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21; previously a 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 78
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__________________
Bill
Idaho Falls
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01-22-2018, 09:43 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Beautiful work, and a nice tabletop as well.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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01-22-2018, 11:55 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Seventy Degrees"
Posts: 3,495
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Looks great, Bill. Looking forward to seeing your work on this up close at Quartzsite.
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01-23-2018, 12:01 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Pismo Beach, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA
Posts: 192
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Nice solid install Bill!
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01-23-2018, 07:45 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Looks good. Is there much 'bounce' on the full sized table. That is my biggest concern, though the sloping of my table with the Springfield is not ideal either. I look forward to checking it out.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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01-23-2018, 08:38 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21' pulled with 2014 Silverado Crewcab
Posts: 853
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Really nice work Bill!
My Lagun arrives today. I ordered a pair of brackets from Woodworkers Hardware last night. I had already ordered 3/8" threaded inserts so I will need to drill out the brackets.
I like the 3/8" plywood overlay to tie everything in. How did you attach the overlay? I see screws. Did it overlap the framing at the top? Glue? I was thinking of some construction adhesive.
I see also the lever on the vertical support is on the left away from the power center. Did you have to modify anything to do that?
__________________
Carl,
"Isn't it amazing how much stuff we get done the day before vacation?"
Zig Ziglar
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01-23-2018, 09:30 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21; previously a 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 78
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Jim – when the table is locked down, I get about 1/4in flex on the perimeter when I push down with maybe 20lbs or so. Virtually all of this flex is in the Lagun aluminum legs and pivot points, some in my plywood table top, and fortunately not in the base plate support. The table has much less movement than the original table in our 2012 19.
Skiman – I used 3/4in no. 12 self-taping screws, square drive like the rest of the trailer. Adhesive would work but I like to be able to take things apart if I see a future upgrade. The screws are just holding the wood in place and not taking much load. Yes, my wood overlay covers the top wood framework of the rear bench. I had to temporarily move some of the wiring out of the way during the install (be sure to turn off power!). My solar controller is now installed on the 3/8in oak surface.
I did reverse the lower Lagun lever to save my knuckles when tightening. It’s a carriage bolt so 30sec with a Dremel tool modified the round hole in the aluminum.
__________________
Bill
Idaho Falls
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01-23-2018, 09:45 AM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Knox, Maine
Trailer: 2017 19'
Posts: 96
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Lagun without u-shaped dinette
Very nice Bill, we are enjoying seeing everyones installs with the Lagun table.
We are working on a plan to install a Lagun table mount without having the factory installed u shaped dinette. Our thoughts are that making a custom u shaped without enclosing the bench area would give us a place to put our dogs dishes safely out of walking area and give her a place for her bed under the table. So our framing support for the new bench and Lagun mount would need to be esthetically pleasing as well as strong since it will be open. We are thinking some sort of center post to both support the table mount and the new bench above along with two steel angle connecting the two side benches for the front and back of the new bench. This would keep the floor under the bench clear for dog dishes except for the center post space. The new bench would also need to be removable (not the frame work but certainly the surface) so that we could access our fuse panel which is near the back end of the side bench.
If anyone else has ideas or has done such an install please chime in.
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01-24-2018, 08:08 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21; previously a 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 78
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I have not seen the bench structure in the new 19s without the U dinette so I can't be much help. I would first investigate if using bolts installed thru the floor and connecting to the trailer frame underneath is possible. If connecting to the frame is out, then consider using a metal plate underneath to bolt thru spreading the load across a larger area of the fiberglass shell than would be possible with fender washers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallyHo
.... We are thinking some sort of center post to both support the table mount and the new bench above along with two steel angle connecting the two side benches for the front and back of the new bench. ....
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__________________
Bill
Idaho Falls
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01-24-2018, 09:54 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdr2
I have not seen the bench structure in the new 19s without the U dinette so I can't be much help. I would first investigate if using bolts installed thru the floor and connecting to the trailer frame underneath is possible. If connecting to the frame is out, then consider using a metal plate underneath to bolt thru spreading the load across a larger area of the fiberglass shell than would be possible with fender washers.
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I don't think the plate would be necessary, but could not hurt. With the near 1/8" fibreglass, a layer of bedding epoxy, then the floor plywood, using fender washers should be good, if there are a bunch of them.
For some reason there seems to be a reluctance to bolt through the floor of the trailer. Done properly it is potentially much stronger than screws of any type, and there is no issue with moisture ingress, especially if you coat the exposed heads with a good caulking. I would not hesitate to do this if I though it would help. Heck I did just that to mount the tire winch that hold my spare underneath, though I did also drill through a cross member of 2" angle iron.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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01-24-2018, 11:24 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2018 Escape 19
Posts: 2,716
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Here are some pictures it took of the display 19 in the showroom.
The passenger side has no support whatsoever. The drivers side you may be able to pick up some cross support from the plywood covering the black water tank. The underside of the trailer in that area is empty of tanks.
I am sure I have mentioned this before but if you are thinking not using the stock table...just get the parts and don’t have them install it. You can see in the last picture the stock screws coming through the bottom of the trailer...then gooped.
Hope this helps.
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02-20-2018, 11:41 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Trailer: 2011 Casita SD 17 Sold July 2016: 2015 Escape 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 101
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Lagun Table Mount with Inverter
Hi All,
I posted before in a separate thread on this topic asking whether anyone had done a Lagun install with the ETI installed inverter behind the dinette rear panel. I have not seen a reply so perhaps I am the first.
The problem with the inverter is that it is mounted on the floor behind the panel where everyone else has been able to mount a metal angle bracket. I suppose one could move or raise the inverter, but not being very knowledgeable about electrical matters I chose to leave it it place and construct bracing around it.
I used a 3/4" plywood backing panel similar to what Bill did and used screws, 1" x 2" pine, and the through-bolts of the bracket panel to hold it in place. Then I braced across from the structural members at the back of the box (which the rear dinette seat top is mounted to) to reinforce the plywood panel. Also doubled the 1" x 2" top member that the front panel is mounted to instead of the angle iron others have used, though I may yet at that.
Seems pretty stable; definitely much better than the original. Haven't traveled with or used it yet, but hope to do so in the next couple of weeks.
Hopefully the pics below will help illustrate.
Paul
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02-20-2018, 11:44 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Trailer: 2011 Casita SD 17 Sold July 2016: 2015 Escape 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 101
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Here's the final pic of the table in place. I used the original stock table.
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02-20-2018, 12:36 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Maple Ridge, British Columbia
Trailer: 2018 17a - now sold
Posts: 36
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Looks great! Quilts and table install....
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02-20-2018, 02:30 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Pismo Beach, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA
Posts: 192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a602pmcc
Here's the final pic of the table in place. I used the original stock table.
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So sorry Paul, I should have chimed in. I turned the inverter 90 degrees and mounted it on a modified back brace parallel with the back wall.
Anyway.... I like your modification that solved the mounting issue. I love my setup, you will too. Bill
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02-20-2018, 06:24 PM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21; previously a 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 78
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Nice job Paul working around the inverter.
We just returned from a 12 day trip to the Quartzite Rally and Joshua Tree National Park. The Lagun table system was a great addition to our trailer. We used a temporary table about 34.5" x 21" which turned out to be about perfect. The table rotates about two pivot points so positioning the table is just so easy. Also, we found we could convert the table to a bed or lounge area in maybe 5 min. And - nothing on the floor to mess with your feet! We are quite happy.
__________________
Bill
Idaho Falls
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02-20-2018, 09:28 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Trailer: 2018 5.0TA / 2018 GMC Canyon/Duramax
Posts: 561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdr2
This month I installed a Lagun table mount
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Bill, nice install and appreciate you sharing. Looking forward to installing my Lagun table mount.
You stated you used 1/4" threaded inserts and bolts, what length inserts/bolts did you use?
Nice looking interior!
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02-21-2018, 07:56 AM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21; previously a 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 78
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I used these:
https://www.ezlok.com/ezknife-insert-400-4
1/2in long, brass, 1/4-20 thread. I actually tested these for pullout in some construction plywood against the E-Z Hex style and found these to be considerably more secure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent
Bill, nice install and appreciate you sharing. Looking forward to installing my Lagun table mount.
You stated you used 1/4" threaded inserts and bolts, what length inserts/bolts did you use?
Nice looking interior!
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__________________
Bill
Idaho Falls
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02-21-2018, 10:29 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Trailer: 2018 5.0TA / 2018 GMC Canyon/Duramax
Posts: 561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdr2
I used these:
https://www.ezlok.com/ezknife-insert-400-4
1/2in long, brass, 1/4-20 thread. I actually tested these for pullout in some construction plywood against the E-Z Hex style and found these to be considerably more secure.
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Thank you Bill!
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