Dave: I'm very appreciative of your 'find' and mention / discussion here - I'd not have landed on the Freedom XC without that nudge, obviously I'm convinced it's the unit for me, too. Thanks!
FYI/FWIW: Our application, in our little all electric 15A, is a little different than most here given our propensity to be out in the middle of nowhere rather than connected at a campground. But the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000 SW inverter (only) has served us well the past 18-months since install.
We've only been to a developed CG once but it automatically transferred from battery to 120v shore power seamlessly and without issue. I have disconnected the WFCO battery charger and since we rarely camp where shore power is provided I plan to just use a stand-alone (Victron) charger for our 6500w/400Ah LFP if/when necessary.
Its good to have so many solid choices for the various application needs we all have!
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HarleyD
2018 5.0TA--2016 F150 3.5EB 4X4
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimmy Hendrix
Those packages of battery, inverter, charger, and whatever else in a portable box are not of much value in a trailer. The trailer already has all of the components (although the inverter is optional), so just replacing the battery with a lithium-ion battery and the adjusting or replacing the charger to suit the battery makes more sense than trying to use a portable system in an RV.
This portable unit manufacturer provides almost no useful information about the batteries included in their units.
Hopefully the last revision. Added a 6 AWG chassis ground on the Xantrex inverter/charger ground lug as per the install instructions. Also reworked the sub panel as I have a 30A main breaker and three 15A branch breakers. I have all the parts in hand except the Bestgo lithium battery which is due in port on 5/17 and then 2-3 weeks overland delivery. Will start the install in a couple of weeks. Plan is to get everything installed and working with the existing dual 6V lead acid batteries and then reprogram and drop the lithium in when it arrives.
Thanks so much for sharing all of your research into this. I really like the choices of components.
My tow vehicle is a Tundra, with a 40A power connection in the 7-pin connector and a 170A alternator. I'm considering using a Victron Orion TR 12/12-30.
I'd consider a larger wire to reduce voltage drop; though that's debatable since the difference in voltage drop between 8AWG and 6AWG would only be about 0.3V. I'm not sure that would have much performance impact.
EDIT: Correction. Tundra has a separate 40A circuit for trailer battery charging.
Inverter and lithium batteries in same compartment?
Thinking a bit more about component placement in the two front dinette seats in the 19. Final schematic is two posts above. Hoping to fit the Bestgo lithium battery and Xantrex Freedom XC (inverter/charger) both on the passenger side. My only reservation is that all inverter manuals seem to indicate that the unit should not be in the same enclosure with batteries. Is this a carryover that assumes hydrogen off-gassing and corrosive electrolytes of lead acid batteries? I just can't seem to find a problem if it is lithium. Locating them separately is in conflict with trying to minimize the DC cable lengths as it would have to be on the driver's side where space is an absolute premium and I already have to mount a sub panel and DC-DC charger. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
.... Hoping to fit the Bestgo lithium battery and Xantrex Freedom XC (inverter/charger) both on the passenger side. My only reservation is that all inverter manuals seem to indicate that the unit should not be in the same enclosure with batteries. Is this a carryover that assumes hydrogen off-gassing and corrosive electrolytes of lead acid batteries? ....
FWIW methinks that 'standard caution' is indeed a holdover from battery off-gas concerns and is moot with LiFePO4 of the sort we are considering (BestGo, Battleborn, etc/similar).
I understand that the Freedom XC, like all other similar devices I've explored, is not rated for use in a potentially explosive atmospheres (it might serve as an ignition source due to internal arcing). Some might argue in favor of a particularly 'conservative' approach such as placing even LiFePO4 batteries in a sealed and externally vented box, isolated from all potential ignition sources; I won't argue against that choice, but it's not mine.
Personally I'm basing my 'utility bay layout' on an assumption that the LiFePO4 battery is not a source of explosive or noxious gasses**, does not require isolation from ignition sources or breathing-air spaces, and am focusing on minimizing cable-runs and maximizing cooling air-circulation for both batteries and inverter/converter components.
YMMV and of course I'll keep the eyes and mind open for any info credibly suggesting that's a flawed approach.
**Yeah, it's possible for an LiFePO4 battery to emit 'bad actors' when things go 'really south'; IMO that's a circumstance that's extremely unlikely in our well-physically-protected and prudently-controlled travel-trailer applications, and IF things get to that point there's gonna be so much other trauma going on that the situation will be dreadful from many other perspectives - it's just not an eventuality that IMO is worth trying to mitigate in advance with extraordinary efforts. Again, YMMV.
FWIW methinks that 'standard caution' is indeed a holdover from battery off-gas concerns and is moot with LiFePO4 of the sort we are considering (BestGo, Battleborn, etc/similar).
Thanks Alan. That is my thought too and quick internet research seems to confirm this as well. Just to be safe if trailer is ever sold, etc. I may put a label on the battery case that states if the battery is replaced it must be a LiFePO4.
Trailer: EX 2013 Scamp 16 OWNER, CURRENT 2016 Escape 21C
Posts: 139
I totally agree with alan, and i also have my electronics close together because it makes it tidy, reduces line losses, and I'm hoping the bits of heat given off by the electronics will help keep the battery warm. Nice job on your system!
I have all of my 12V electronics in one compartment as well. Could anyone recommend a 4-inch 12V muffin fan that is thermostatically-controlled? Just in case things get too warm in there.
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Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
I have all of my 12V electronics in one compartment as well. Could anyone recommend a 4-inch 12V muffin fan that is thermostatically-controlled? Just in case things get too warm in there.
these controllers look like an inexpensive and nice way to control the environment around the battery. i would think you could use one of the outputs to operate a small relay which would allow power to a heating pad or two for winter use and of course the thermostat as it is to operate a fan for cooling.
I'll keep looking for an all-in-one unit but thanks. Last year I bought a similar thermal switch but never installed it, hoping for a fan with a thermal switch on it. I'll use the switch I have if I don't find a fan equipped with one.
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Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Cleared out the passenger side dinette seat area. Prepping to receive the Bestgo 400AH lithium battery, Xantrex Freedom XC 2000W inverter/charger, Victron BMV-712 battery monitor shunt and 250A fuse. With the Xantrex unit mounted on its side there will actually be more storage room than before with dual 6V lead acid end-to-end in large battery box. On the driver’s side I traced and labeled all circuits and then rewired the WFCO power center with new 30A breaker temporarily feeding sub panel (eventually this will be the AC input to Xantrex unit). Pulled all the circuits from the WFCO that I want fed from inverter when off-grid - all outlets, microwave and mini-split A/C. Fridge came along for the ride as it’s wired with the microwave. Run on propane off grid anyway. Wired circuits into new sub panel with 30A main and four 15A branch breakers. I added one branch breaker because the front outlet was on its own circuit. Moved the EMS unit back and had to move a junction box to fit the sub panel sideways close to the WFCO. With a little rerouting all the circuits (barely) had enough length to reach sub panel as ground buss was in far corner. Great location as breakers are right there facing up when you lift the driver’s side dinette seat. Victron DC-DC 18A charger will be mounted and wired soon right near 7-pin junction box. Doesn’t look like much but those that have redone some of their own wiring can appreciate that this was quite a bit of work! More to come...
Dave, as I'm following with interest and trying to keep this straight as a learning opportunity, do I understand correctly that upon install of the Freedom XC:
The Main Panel 30A breaker labeled "Sub Panel" will become 'Freedom XC Converter' and will be normally "On" (?)
The Main Panel 15A breaker labeled "Converter" will become 'WildKat backup converter' and will be normally "Off" (?)
Just for comparison, what's the approximate width-depth-height of that now-cleared space in your 2010 E19 passenger-side bench?
It's all looking great, I'm looking forward to the next step!
Dave, as I'm following with interest and trying to keep this straight as a learning opportunity, do I understand correctly that upon install of the Freedom XC:
The Main Panel 30A breaker labeled "Sub Panel" will become 'Freedom XC Converter' and will be normally "On" (?)
The Main Panel 15A breaker labeled "Converter" will become 'WildKat backup converter' and will be normally "Off" (?)
Just for comparison, what's the approximate width-depth-height of that now-cleared space in your 2010 E19 passenger-side bench?
It's all looking great, I'm looking forward to the next step!
Alan: Correct with minor clarification that 30A breaker labeled Sub Panel becomes “Inverter/Charger”. 15A breaker will be for the backup WildKat Converter/Charger and be normally OFF or disconnected. I will move the jumper to lithium and then I may also remove the hot off the breaker so there is no chance that it could be inadvertently turned ON and try to charge the battery along with the Xantrex. Building this out incrementally and trying to keep the trailer fully functional. Wired in a 12V battery to run lights and Maxxfan while I had the AC side offline. No word yet on delivery date for Bestgo lithium. Hoping to get a tracking number soon.
I’ll measure the dinette compartment for you soon and report back.
Alan: Correct with minor clarification that 30A breaker labeled Sub Panel becomes “Inverter/Charger”. 15A breaker will be for the backup WildKat Converter/Charger and be normally OFF or disconnected. I will move the jumper to lithium and then I may also remove the hot off the breaker so there is no chance that it could be inadvertently turned ON and try to charge the battery along with the Xantrex. Building this out incrementally and trying to keep the trailer fully functional. Wired in a 12V battery to run lights and Maxxfan while I had the AC side offline. No word yet on delivery date for Bestgo lithium. Hoping to get a tracking number soon.
I’ll measure the dinette compartment for you soon and report back.
I do have a question, you might be able to help in my mind for my expansion next fall. From what I understand the wfco charger section also powers the 12 volt side when there is shore power. If you disable that will the freedom xc also provide that power as well as charge the battery while on shore power ? Or am I not getting the logic of the wfco right ?
Linear Mode
