Modifications to Olive, a 5.0

[jphil23462]

Forgot to address the ETI installed components. I purchased the EMS (surge protector) option and would highly recommend it to anyone considering it. As per the diagram, that is the black box right after the shore power connector. It comes with an LED readout for power issues and gives a constant readout of volts, hertz, amps, and current code. ETI mounted this on the front of the dinette bench but it puts out a lot of light in dark (while trying to sleep) conditions. I moved it to inside the bench and can quickly access to check code should there be an issue. I have several other monitors including the MT50 from the solar charge controller and the remote AIMS panel to give me current watts, volts, and amps that are easily seen from the kitchen area without having light pollution issues.

I also reused the AC/DC distribution panel or breaker box. It had plenty of spaces for any breakers I might need to use at this time.

Other than that, everything else was ripped out and replaced. Not something most will be willing to do but for me the end goal was being able to run the A/C off of solar and batteries.

[Centex]

Testing my understanding of it all .... does this look correct?

[jphil23462]

Good to go. The solar charge controller is before the battery shutoff on the positive bus bar. The AC and DC out are separate fused terminals after the shutoff. All three use ANL fuses.

[camp4528]

Thank you very much for this.

[jphil23462]

For those looking for an informative video on solar calculations, I found this one helpful. As most know, I built my system to run my mini-split A/C. We've had a lot of rain and wind in FL lately, so haven't been able to install the last two panels. Am hoping for this weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6glK...r6p9nd&index=8

[Greg A]

Originally Posted by jphil23462

Good to go. The solar charge controller is before the battery shutoff on the positive bus bar. The AC and DC out are separate fused terminals after the shutoff. All three use ANL fuses.

Great information, TY. My only question is with the Aims inverter it appears that when shore power is off the inverter is automatically always on unlike the ETI component setup where you can switch the inverter on only when needed. Of course, with the 4 batt setup that shouldn't matter for you, but the inverter draw could matter on a smaller system.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by camp4528

Centex has already asked about the 24V decision. One of the many LiFePo links pointed to from this forum talks about the internal BMS in each battery sometimes getting out of sync when wired in series and shutting down charging or discharging circuits at voltage limits. Do your batteries not have the BMS and leave that up to your solar charge controller?

While there's nothing about lithium-ion cells or even battery management systems (BMS) in general that stops you from running as many cells or modules (groups of cells) in series as you want (electric cars normally run 96 cells in series and these "12 volt" units are only four cells), the protective systems in these "drop in" 12 volt units are not intended for that use. It can work, but at least one manufacturer explicitly states that their batteries are not to be connected in series. In a properly designed system, the protective disconnection for overvoltage undervoltage, high and low temperature, and excessive current, is all done by one system for the whole battery bank, not redundantly in each of the boxes connected in series.

These protective features cannot be handled by the solar charge controller, because it does not have access to the battery current, the ability to disconnect the battery, or the ability to monitor the voltage of individual cells. All the solar charge controller could possibly do is stop charging at a set voltage, and that's far from complete protection... but it should stop charging before reaching the BMS protective shutdown level is reached.

[jphil23462]

The space coast of Florida finally had sun this weekend. The wind was a bit challenging so had to go slower. Finally installed the last two panels. Wiring is done but have to secure the wires and connect the disconnect that is in place right before the solar charge controller. Will test everything in the coming week and report back the findings. 975 watts of solar.

[jphil23462]

Also want to address the battery connection. Some lithium batteries cannot be connected in series, so must check with the manufacturer before buying. Battle Born batteries can be placed into a series configuration. The process is to charge each individual battery to 14.2V first. Then connect all the batteries in parallel to allow them to equalize. Recheck to ensure the group is above 14.2V. Connect in series. In my case, I have two battery groups that are connected in series and the two groups connected in parallel. That is how I get 24V and 200A.

[jphil23462]

After checking the solar charge controller settings one last time and plugging in the panels, so say I'm a kid in a candy store would be an understatement.

I'm still plugged into shore power for this morning's test. The solar panels are producing 40V in mid-morning sunny conditions. The angle is not optimal and still producing good power. The next test will be with A/C running disconnected from shore power. Will let that test run for several days to see how the battery discharges or remains topped off. Average temps for our area are 90 degrees F for day and 78 degrees F for night.

We will be travelling to camp in a week. Will be able to test how the panels hold up to 70 mph drive speeds and report once we get back.

[camp4528]

I'm very excited for you. You have put a lot of thought into the trailer modifications, and must be very pleased with the outcome so far.

I look forward to hearing your post-trip update and seeing your final pictures of the interior modifications.

[Centex]

jphil23462, as I'm delving into more detail about such mods / systems and trying to apply the great experience shared here ....

Could you describe where the following connections are made in your schematic (perhaps with reference to the sketch I posted above)

• The +12VDC lead from the trailer 7-pin connector
• The 'breakaway emergency-brake' power lead
• The front electric-jacks power lead

Thanks!

[jphil23462]

The trailer lights and the brakes work off power from the 7-pin connector. Those wires have their own circuits based off the towing vehicle and are not integrated into the Escape electrical system.

The front landing gear jack motors are not powered by the towing vehicle. Those are powered by the DC side of the fuse box. The other items powered by the DC side include the fridge (which is also connected to the AC side, depending on how you want it powered), the interior and exterior lights (non towing related), water pump, the fans such as the MAXX fan, etc. AC side of fuse box powers 110 outlets, A/C, and fridge.

[jphil23462]

We just got back from our wonderful trip at a state park. Wanted to share a few key points.

1. Was worried about the solar panels traveling at 70 mph as I just saw a post of someone who had theirs bent in half. Mine are attached with a metal angle bracket as support and I didn't have any issues.
2. Before leaving, I had shore power disconnected in mostly shade, rain, partial sun conditions for 2 1/2 days. I left the A/C running at 80 degrees and batteries never dipped. The A/C goes to 75 or 74 at night for sleeping and still no problems.
3. It was sunny during our trip, so decided to do another test. I unplugged shore power for the last day and ran the fridge on DC. I also used our induction top to boil water for coffee. I had the A/C turned off for this test. One step at a time. Lol. We drove home that afternoon. The batteries did dip for the induction top but quickly came back up to full. The induction top pulled 73 amps for the first minute and 62 A for the second minute. Only takes two minutes to boil 24 oz of water. The fridge was set on the middle setting for cold and never caused the batteries to move, as far as I could tell.

The good news is that I can run the fridge on DC or the A/C with inverter on off of solar power exclusively. Will try to have the fridge and the A/C running while occasionally using the induction top to test for full functionality in the future. The temps have been in the 90s with lows of around 78. We are projected to have a few cold days with lows in the 60s. Can't tell you how excited I am about that but will have to wait for the hotter temps to come back to fully test the system. The solar/electrical setup will easily handle these temps, so not a good test.

[camp4528]

Very nice jphil!!! Thanks for sharing your results.
It would be interesting to see a photo of your completed interior renovations. The last photo I saw was nearly complete but I don’t think the rearward counter extension/cupboard was in place because that was all waiting for the electrical installation.

[escape artist]

Hi: jphil23462... "More power to you"!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by jphil23462

Before leaving, I had shore power disconnected in mostly shade, rain, partial sun conditions for 2 1/2 days. I left the A/C running at 80 degrees and batteries never dipped. The A/C goes to 75 or 74 at night for sleeping and still no problems.

Incredible Joel. Wish I had the space and cash for 4 Battleborn lithium and 975W solar!! You have taken the mini-split A/C install to the next level for sure!

[Centex]

Kudos on the test runs, remarkable air-conditioned boondocking achieved it seems!

Originally Posted by jphil23462

The trailer lights and the brakes work off power from the 7-pin connector. Those wires have their own circuits based off the towing vehicle and are not integrated into the Escape electrical system.

All of that is understood when connected to the tow vehicle.

So do I understand correctly that you have abandoned the emergency breakaway-brakes entirely?

And, with all that solar charging on-tap, you've abandoned vehicle-to-trailer charging entirely?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Centex

So do I understand correctly that you have abandoned the emergency breakaway-brakes entirely?

And, with all that solar charging on-tap, you've abandoned vehicle-to-trailer charging entirely?

My initial reaction to the breakaway question was "of course not"... but this is actually a very good question.

Joel, have you eliminated the connection of the charge line from the tow vehicle to anything in the trailer? Perhaps yes, as there is no separate 12 volt battery to charge, but the charge line could still directly feed the DC distribution panel.
Is the breakaway switch connected to the 24 VDC to 12 VDC converter output (via the DC distribution panel or otherwise), or have you lost the breakaway feature? Or have you added a small 12 volt battery just for the breakaway system, charged perhaps by the tow vehicle?

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

My initial reaction to the breakaway question was "of course not"... but this is actually a very good question.

Joel, have you eliminated the connection of the charge line from the tow vehicle to anything in the trailer? Perhaps yes, as there is no separate 12 volt battery to charge, but the charge line could still directly feed the DC distribution panel.
Is the breakaway switch connected to the 24 VDC to 12 VDC converter output (via the DC distribution panel or otherwise), or have you lost the breakaway feature? Or have you added a small 12 volt battery just for the breakaway system, charged perhaps by the tow vehicle?

I originally asked about this in post 32 because while I can see several ways to preserve the breakaway-brakes feature I wondered where the connection was made to secure the correct voltage, avoid mishap with the 24-V battery disconnect, etc.

I'd not assumed the emergency breakaway feature was abandoned but Joel's reply left me wondering ... your Q's cut to the heart of it. Maybe a direct connection to the 24V array for this extraordinarily rare, hopefully never encountered, and inevitably involving lots of other trauma situation would be the easiest? Would 24v instead of 12v actually be a problem to actuate those brake magnets for this one-off emergency circumstance?

Elimination of the vehicle-to-trailer charging connection I can well imagine in this case, it'd probably be an insignificant contribution to the batteries in the big-picture and require a bit of unnecessary complication to get right (while Joel has the 24>12V step-down he avoids any 12>24V buck device it seems).

Power to the jacks from the DC distribution panel can work I suppose, I just didn't realize that WFCO panel/fuseboard was rated for the ~40A draw those demand. I assumed () that was why ETI grabs the jack feed before the panel and fuses it at 40A with an inline fuse on that relatively short (10AWG?) wire up-front. I've not checked what wire it would take to manage that current for the substantially longer run from the rear DC panel, maybe 10AWG would still do it.

All devilish details.