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Old 04-08-2023, 11:21 PM   #1
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Moving GFCI to kitchen

I want to move the external GFCI to the kitchen, it is a pain to reset it all the time. Has anyone done this and is it difficult?
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Old 04-09-2023, 12:22 AM   #2
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No you can not move the GFI.

Usually the power comes into the GFI and then goes to the rest of the circuit.
What is causing the GFI to trip ?
It’s also possible the GFI is weak and needs to be replaced.
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Old 04-09-2023, 08:28 AM   #3
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As suggested I would replace the original GFI receptacle with a new high quality unit. Also I believe you could replace your kitchen outlet with a GFI outlet if that’s what
You’re Commonly plugged into when your outer receptacle kicks out.

I had an experience with a park pavilion serving counter where I had 8 individual 20 amp receptacles on their own circuits running off a new 200 amp Square D commercial grade panel equipped with GFI breakers. A user plugged in a Nacho Cheese warmer and it tripped the breaker. He then proceeded to plug into the other seven outlets and each one tripped. He called me and was mad. I met my maintenance electrician at the pavilion and we opened the panel and reset the breakers. Before we got over to the serving counter the person in charge had tripped 5 of the 8 reset breakers.
We told him the problem was his warmer and that it had a short in it. He denied that and was mad but had a person bring out another warmer. Guess what, no additional problems.

Due to my public position I could not express my disgust for his behavior and the comments he had made about the quality of our park operation. His comments were not
valid and were inappropriate. Due to the fact that I was a public employee at the time I refrained from engaging him. Then I retired . And I met him at a high school function, where he was the activities director. And let’s just say I left a lasting impression when I expressed my belief in his intelligence level. Yes I lowered myself to his level and below. And I never regretted it for a minute.
That’s my GFI story. Check your devices for amperage draw and adjust accordingly.
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:25 AM   #4
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Commercial grade GFI

I've read that consumer grade GFI's don't last, and a more expensive commercial grade one will. I guess I'd start there, with the replacement GFI.
As Dave notes, does your appliance have an issue or is too high a load for the GFI?
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:26 AM   #5
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I was thinking of moving the GFCI inside and rewiring the circuits to go through the GFCI first. Does there GFCI have to be outside?
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:38 AM   #6
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It may be difficult to find a GFCI that fits the narrow space where Escape locates the standard kitchen receptacle. A standard box doesn't fit & I haven't found a boxless GFCI of the type Escape uses in most of the rest of the trailer.

Check that the outside receptacle is well sealed - I had to redo mine to prevent tripping from rain water.
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:39 AM   #7
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I’m not familiar with the electrical code for camper Manufacturers on whether it’s required for exterior circuits to be GFI protected. It would seem prudent owing to the possibility of a damp, and perhaps dirty environment that depends on the seal provided by an inexpensive cover. That’s why I questioned the possibility of two GFI protected receptacles. Would seem to be easier to do and effective.

I think we always used QD grade breakers and commercial receptacles on 20 amp circuits with 12-3 wire, but I can’t remember for sure, it’s been 14 years since I wrote a specification. We always used Square D breakers, panels etc. owing to the fact that they were based in Cedar Rapids and an outstanding employer. Always favored union electricians too, employed by firms with commercial experience. I think Square D is owned by someone else now. They were the standard around our area for many years.
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Old 04-09-2023, 11:31 AM   #8
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I was thinking of moving the GFCI inside and rewiring the circuits to go through the GFCI first. Does there GFCI have to be outside?
No, the exterior outlet has to be GFCI protected meaning that it can be an ordinary receptacle downstream from an interior GFCI.

Jon pointed out that space was restricted and that installing one in place of the existing kitchen one might be difficult.

There's no reason why you can't be a bit creative and install a new interior GFCI outlet in an easy access location and then run the load output to a plain exterior outlet.

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Old 04-09-2023, 12:02 PM   #9
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Dealing with the symptom and not the root cause

It seems to me you're dealing with the symptom and not the root cause. Your GFI is tripping, for some reason. Adding another GFI doesn't remedy the cause for this.

I'd start from the exterior GFI for troubleshooting first, where the issue originates.
That's just my way of working a problem.
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Old 04-09-2023, 12:11 PM   #10
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I was thinking of moving the GFCI inside and rewiring the circuits to go through the GFCI first. Does there GFCI have to be outside?
The GFI doesn’t have to be located out side but any out let near water or can get wet should be protected by a GFI. “Outside plugs, kitchen, bathroom, etc”

So to answer your question, the GFI can be located inside and then have the outside outlet wired to it.
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Old 04-09-2023, 12:54 PM   #11
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Good idea, thank you
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Old 04-09-2023, 12:55 PM   #12
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Thanks
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Old 04-09-2023, 05:55 PM   #13
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I use these for garbage disposals, refrigerators and microwaves. Passes code inspections that require this or a gfi within 6 feet of a water outlet.
It also takes care of the incompatibility some refrigerators have with a gfi outlet.
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Old 04-09-2023, 06:51 PM   #14
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I use these for garbage disposals, refrigerators and microwaves. Passes code inspections that require this or a gfi within 6 feet of a water outlet.
It also takes care of the incompatibility some refrigerators have with a gfi outlet.
I don't understand how that could take the place of a GFCI. If you plugged in a device and it had an internal fault making it hot to touch it wouldn't trip like a GFCI. What am I missing?

I find GFCIs to be a mixed bag. I've one on my sundeck, 40 years in the open, never tripped, never tripped any in any RV but one near my pond trips randomly.

Just installed one to the side of my toilet. Really hope that one works if my aim is off.

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Old 04-09-2023, 07:00 PM   #15
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I don’t know about the GFI / Toilet setup but I can relate with some assurance on the presence of a water stream and an electric fence. As a scoutmaster orienting young scouts to behavior around a horse pasture the most ornery thing you can do is to end your orientation with the admonition “Whatever you do, don’t pee on that wire.” And walk away. You will almost be out of earshot when you hear the yelp
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Old 04-09-2023, 07:43 PM   #16
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I don't understand how that could take the place of a GFCI. If you plugged in a device and it had an internal fault making it hot to touch it wouldn't trip like a GFCI. What am I missing?

I find GFCIs to be a mixed bag. I've one on my sundeck, 40 years in the open, never tripped, never tripped any in any RV but one near my pond trips randomly.

Just installed one to the side of my toilet. Really hope that one works if my aim is off.

Ron
They classify it as a dedicated line.

I think you have rental properties, here’s a fun one. I’m replacing an outside condenser, the dog used it for a target when peeing. It ate thru the backside of it, destroying it, all Freon leaking out. It couldn’t be noticed until the top fan was removed, I think I'm going down to a 12 pound weight limit.
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Old 04-09-2023, 08:14 PM   #17
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I don't understand how that could take the place of a GFCI. If you plugged in a device and it had an internal fault making it hot to touch it wouldn't trip like a GFCI. What am I missing?
It doesn't 'take the place' of a GFCI device and you're not missing anything.

Just saying that the absence of GFCI protection doesn't 'take the place' of GFCI protection, even if deemed 'code (minimum standards) compliant' for whatever reason.
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:02 PM   #18
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It doesn't 'take the place' of a GFCI device and you're not missing anything.

Just saying that the absence of GFCI protection doesn't 'take the place' of GFCI protection, even if deemed 'code (minimum standards) compliant' for whatever reason.
Well it seems it’s good enough for US government housing code, I comply, move them in.

Here’s one, older wiring with only a negative and positive. Not showing a ground on the tester, swap out the three hole double outlet and replace it with a two hole double outlet, no ground hole. Stamped pass by a government inspector.
I figure they’ve looked into these things a bit, so I do as they require and move on.

Everyone should do what they’re comfortable with…
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:23 PM   #19
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Several of the comments in this thread implied that overloading was causing the GFI to trip. This is not the case. If you overload a particular circuit, say a hair dryer in the bathroom and a coffee maker in the kitchen at the same time on the same circuit, the GFI is not what will trip, it will be the circuit breaker in the power center. The GFI only trips is there is a difference in the amount of current going into vs current going out of the receptacle. Current going out that doesn't come back, is going somewhere else, thus the fault to a ground, which is dangerous.

If the OP is constantly tripping the GFCI, first, replace it where it is located outside, and see what happens. Many times GFCIs get weak and trip for no real reason. If the new one trips, you need to start determining what is causing it to trip, the coffee maker, the hair dryer, electric frying pan, hot plate, what? Something has a short in it and is faulting to ground.

Most RV manufacturers put the GFCI inside so it is out of the weather, and put the outside receptacle last in a circuit. Putting it outside is not the best thing, and I suggest spending the money for a model marked as WR or weather resistant, which is much better quality.

Rewiring the circuits in a trailer will be nearly impossible without destroying the interior of the trailer. It is not worth the effort, just get the best GFCI you can, and locate any problems.

You do not want to be using a device that keeps tripping the GFI. You can, if you wanted to, buy a GFI similar to those used on the end of hair dryer cords, and install it on your appliances, but that does not fix the problem.

Note that two items in the trailer that cause GFI trips that many people have trouble tracing are the absorption fridge when operating on shore power (120v AC) and the water heater when operating on 120v AC. In both cases, the heat elements will get a fault to the heating element housing and will only fault and trip the GFI when they are heating, thus being an intermittent trip that is hard to trace. This only would happen if the water heater or the fridge were on the GFI circuit.

One thing you can do is take an extension cord and open the outside fridge vent and unplug it from its receptacle, which might be on that outside GFCI circuit, and plug it into an extension cord and run the cord to a portable GFCI or the one in the power pedestal. You will have to watch rather closely and if the fridge changes to gas with the loss of power, then there is your fault. Fridges that are not on GFCI can cause hot skin conditions also, which are dangerous.

You did not mention a portable generator but if you are using one, you will have to use a bonding plug in it if you are using a power EMS such as a Hughes or Progressive Dynamics unit. They don't like portable generators that don't have the ground and neutral bonded together.

Charles
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Old 04-09-2023, 10:08 PM   #20
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As others have mentioned, if the ground-fault protection is via a GFCI outlet, then the outlet has to be the first in the chain of outlets so that all the other outlets are also ground-fault protected.


However, you could skip the GFCI outlet entirely, and install a GFCI circuit breaker in the electrical panel instead. They're more expensive than the outlets, but at least you wouldn't have to go outside to reset it.
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