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Old 11-21-2020, 07:55 AM   #1
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Shunt Location in a 21NE

Working on a Victron Smart Shunt install in our 21NE and struggling a little bit with choosing a location that will work. The primary problem I'm seeing so far is the lack of any slack in the existing cabling. For our install they ran the large gauge main wires down and out of the storage box passenger side and ran the smaller gauge charge wires down and out on the drivers side. Both sets of cables are tight and have no slack.

Best I've been able to think to do is to cut the charge negative and extend it allowing me to mount the shut somewhere over on the PS of the box and pull the charge cable over to it. However, even with that solution I'm not left with a lot of give in the main wire. Given that I'm in the fiberglass box also uncertain on the best technique to use for securing and protecting the shunt.

Anyone have any experience with this set up? Ideas / experience on where to mount the shunt? Recommendations on how to extend the length of the charge wire?

Thanks!
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:37 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacchino View Post
Working on a Victron Smart Shunt install in our 21NE and struggling a little bit with choosing a location that will work. The primary problem I'm seeing so far is the lack of any slack in the existing cabling. For our install they ran the large gauge main wires down and out of the storage box passenger side and ran the smaller gauge charge wires down and out on the drivers side. Both sets of cables are tight and have no slack.

Best I've been able to think to do is to cut the charge negative and extend it allowing me to mount the shut somewhere over on the PS of the box and pull the charge cable over to it. However, even with that solution I'm not left with a lot of give in the main wire. Given that I'm in the fiberglass box also uncertain on the best technique to use for securing and protecting the shunt.

Anyone have any experience with this set up? Ideas / experience on where to mount the shunt? Recommendations on how to extend the length of the charge wire?

Thanks!
I put my shunt on the PS end of the battery box. I made new 2/0 cables and upgraded then while I was about it.

You can pick up a battery cable at any auto store to run from your batt neg to the shunt batt post. Cut a small slot in end of the box and run it straight down to the shunt. Move the present batt neg cable to the shunt load side and you're in business. I see you have no inverter so you won't have to deal with those cables.
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:42 AM   #3
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You can break the negative any where as long as it is before it splits. All current in the trailer needs to go through the shunt. I would follow the main wire and see if it can be located where you can add wire.
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:52 AM   #4
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I put my shunt on the PS end of the battery box. I made new 2/0 cables and upgraded then while I was about it.

You can pick up a battery cable at any auto store to run from your batt neg to the shunt batt post. Cut a small slot in end of the box and run it straight down to the shunt. Move the present batt neg cable to the shunt load side and you're in business. I see you have no inverter so you won't have to deal with those cables.
Yeah, there is actually no box for the batteries, they are just stuck in the bottom of the storage box with a couple of wood blocks to hold them in place and a piece of plywood that can be set on top to cover the lugs. We do have an inverter. Curious what you didn't see in these pictures to make you think we don't.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:03 AM   #5
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Yeah, there is actually no box for the batteries, they are just stuck in the bottom of the storage box with a couple of wood blocks to hold them in place and a piece of plywood that can be set on top to cover the lugs. We do have an inverter. Curious what you didn't see in these pictures to make you think we don't.
I was thinking of my own 21. I didn't see the 200A mega fuse on the inverter cable that connects to the battery post. After looking again I can see it's obvious that there is no box similar to mine. Completely blocked out the inverter cables that are there for all to see.

As we used to say in the Army "Disregard that last transmission"

My inverter cable fuse was directly attached to the battery post. I have since moved it and placed it in a fuse holder.

Love Asheville, We have a summer place on Kerr Lake over by Wilkesboro.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:07 AM   #6
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I would follow the main wire and see if it can be located where you can add wire.
Straight into the under body insulation

I can see it come up for the connection to the inverter, again with no slack. I could probably cut it there and put the shunt in but that would leave the charge side run that is out in the battery box not going through the shunt. I suppose I could cut all that off and make both connections inside the bench next to the inverter? Would be fairly far from the battery though, not sure if there is a downside to that.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:26 AM   #7
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As we used to say in the Army "Disregard that last transmission"

My inverter cable fuse was directly attached to the battery post. I have since moved it and placed it in a fuse holder.

Love Asheville, We have a summer place on Kerr Lake over by Wilkesboro.
Ah

Yeah, I was a little surprised to see the fuse on the negative side of things but I guess same result in the end.

I really like the Wilkesboro area, did some looking up around West Jefferson but ultimately stayed here.
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:18 AM   #8
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Just FYI there's some pics and discussion of Jon Vermilye's shunt installation (both pre-lithium battery and post-lithium battery) in his E21 at this page on his blog:

Lithium Battery project
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:37 AM   #9
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One point - as long as Escape continues to mount the inverter fuse directly to the battery terminal & wire (not in a fuse holder) be sure to carry a spare. These fuses are not designed for the amount of flexing that rough roads present & they will fail mechanically. I had 2 of them break before I switched to a fuse holder.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by tacchino View Post
Best I've been able to think to do is to cut the charge negative and extend it allowing me to mount the shut somewhere over on the PS of the box and pull the charge cable over to it. However, even with that solution I'm not left with a lot of give in the main wire. Given that I'm in the fiberglass box also uncertain on the best technique to use for securing and protecting the shunt.

Anyone have any experience with this set up? Ideas / experience on where to mount the shunt? Recommendations on how to extend the length of the charge wire?



Thanks!

that second thinner black wire (not the clip lead) going out the bottom left of your pictures, is that solar or something? that black wire also should be mounted on the other side of the shunt, NOT directly to the battery.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:39 PM   #11
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I believe this is a photo of the initial Escape installation. No shunt in the image. As John noted, when you add the shunt, ALL negatives need to go to the non battery side of the shunt, and it should be as close as possible to the batteries.

Don't know what the small wires are, but they look a lot like the power connections for my Tire Minder booster. With them connected directly to the batteries, I sure would like to see a fuse.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
One point - as long as Escape continues to mount the inverter fuse directly to the battery terminal & wire (not in a fuse holder) be sure to carry a spare. These fuses are not designed for the amount of flexing that rough roads present & they will fail mechanically. I had 2 of them break before I switched to a fuse holder.
Thanks for the link to the holder, will definitely add that in.

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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
that second thinner black wire (not the clip lead) going out the bottom left of your pictures, is that solar or something? that black wire also should be mounted on the other side of the shunt, NOT directly to the battery.
I believe that is running out to solar and converter. If you look at the underneath picture though you can see that it doesn't run forward with the positive wire but instead goes another route. The positive wire comes up in the front bench and runs into the battery disconnect. The two heavy gauge wires that run out the top of the frame run straight to the inverter. Am I misunderstanding something there?

Definitely plan to put all connections on the outbound side of the shunt. Only the shunt will connect directly to the battery negative.

What I'm mainly uncertain about is one, how best to break the smaller gauge wire and connect it to another wire in order to lengthen it. Two how best to secure the shut when all I have is fiberglass to attach it to and no slack in the large gauge inverter wire to play with.
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Old 11-21-2020, 02:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
I believe this is a photo of the initial Escape installation. No shunt in the image. As John noted, when you add the shunt, ALL negatives need to go to the non battery side of the shunt, and it should be as close as possible to the batteries.

Don't know what the small wires are, but they look a lot like the power connections for my Tire Minder booster. With them connected directly to the batteries, I sure would like to see a fuse.
Yup, you are correct, no shunt in place yet.

Good guess on the Tire Minder Was just a quick and dirty solution to get us out on our first trip, not intended as a permanent solution although I haven't yet figured out where I will put it.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacchino View Post
Working on a Victron Smart Shunt install in our 21NE and struggling a little bit with choosing a location that will work. The primary problem I'm seeing so far is the lack of any slack in the existing cabling. For our install they ran the large gauge main wires down and out of the storage box passenger side and ran the smaller gauge charge wires down and out on the drivers side. Both sets of cables are tight and have no slack.

Best I've been able to think to do is to cut the charge negative and extend it allowing me to mount the shut somewhere over on the PS of the box and pull the charge cable over to it. However, even with that solution I'm not left with a lot of give in the main wire. Given that I'm in the fiberglass box also uncertain on the best technique to use for securing and protecting the shunt.

Anyone have any experience with this set up? Ideas / experience on where to mount the shunt? Recommendations on how to extend the length of the charge wire?

Thanks!
I will be blunt about this - those are the worst crimp connections I have ever seen. Please consider replacing that mess with correctly crimped cables. They will fail in no time at all.

Please take a look at what correctly crimped connections should look like.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...les-19164.html
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:24 PM   #15
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Good eyes there Tom........
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:39 PM   #16
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I will be blunt about this - those are the worst crimp connections I have ever seen. Please consider replacing that mess with correctly crimped cables. They will fail in no time at all.

Please take a look at what correctly crimped connections should look like.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...les-19164.html
You say that as if you think I did the work. That is the lovely factory job
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:49 PM   #17
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I will be blunt about this - those are the worst crimp connections I have ever seen. Please consider replacing that mess with correctly crimped cables. They will fail in no time at all.

Please take a look at what correctly crimped connections should look like.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...les-19164.html

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Originally Posted by tacchino View Post
You say that as if you think I did the work. That is the lovely factory job
I apologize if I gave the impression that you did the wiring. I am positive that Escape did that terrible wiring job - it may be the worst they have done so far but not the first bad wiring I have seen come out of Chilliwack.

Lately I had seen some improvements from Escape on wiring - the upgraded battery cutoff switch is one of them. But after seeing your trailer wiring, I have to say they have not improved at all.

The good news is that it is fixable.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:59 PM   #18
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Ah

Yeah, I was a little surprised to see the fuse on the negative side of things but I guess same result in the end.

I really like the Wilkesboro area, did some looking up around West Jefferson but ultimately stayed here.
No, having the fuse on the negative terminal doesn't have the same result. Current protection is in place but short circuit protection is not. The fuse is there in case there is a short of the battery positive to ground.

If you want to see what I mean, short your negative battery terminal to the frame. Nothing will happen because the battery negative is already bonded to the frame. It's the positive wiring you want to protect with fuses.
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Old 11-22-2020, 05:21 AM   #19
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No, having the fuse on the negative terminal doesn't have the same result. Current protection is in place but short circuit protection is not. The fuse is there in case there is a short of the battery positive to ground.

If you want to see what I mean, short your negative battery terminal to the frame. Nothing will happen because the battery negative is already bonded to the frame. It's the positive wiring you want to protect with fuses.
Hmmm, looking at your install I see your fuse was originally on the positive side and you kept it there. Is that something I should look to change as well?
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:12 AM   #20
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I will be blunt about this - those are the worst crimp connections I have ever seen. Please consider replacing that mess with correctly crimped cables. They will fail in no time at all.
I knew that comment was coming! Certainly a lot of room for improvement on that wiring.
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