What do you think of lithium batteries without solar on the roof?

[1200bruce]

Looking at maybe a couple of Battle Born batteries, and a generator to charge them up.
It wouldn't have to drill a hole in the back for battery vapors, I heard it'll have to have a different charger for lithium.
I just don't want any more holes in the roof and we're going to go with a 12-volt compressor fridge with no vents in the side or on the roof.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Lithium batteries are very expensive.

Running a compressor fridge full time on batteries, I suspect you'll need to run that generator several hours every day to keep things charged, and yes you will need a DC converter that has the proper charge cycle mode for Lithium.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

I would considering having the solar pre wire option. That way you could add panels latter that did not requiring more holes. Yes the pre wire port would be one more hole. You will already have at least 50 holes in the shell so one more would not be a deal breaker. I was assuming when escape started offering lithium they would offer a different converter charger. It this not the case?

[dstreight]

If you don't camp for more than a couple nights in a row without hookups (depending upon the ratio of electric energy used versus stored) you can utilize a DC-to-DC charger from the pull vehicle's alternator & battery to keep the battery charged while driving. Otherwise you're going to need to embrace solar in some capacity.

Propane/gasoline generators won't typically give you the current quantity needed to take full advantage of the high current input capacity of LiFePO4; unless you truly only need 100A of battery per se. We have 400A/6500W LiFePO4 battery and at 12A DC going in, using a typical 2000w genset, it would take considerable time and fuel to replace 1/4-1/2 or more of the current used.

But, have you calculated your electric requirements? Everything in the battery & charger loop is subordinate to how much current you will be using per hour, per day, etc.

[MyronL]

In the Tongue Box. Seems to be holding a steady 13.3W with the trailer sitting all winter hooked to shore power. Had some brutally cold nights here but no battery problems. I haven't tried charging my BattleBorn with the Wen. If we ever get out of here and go to Quartzsite I will find out how well my 200W solar panels do.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by MyronL

In the Tongue Box. Seems to be holding a steady 13.3W with the trailer sitting all winter hooked to shore power. Had some brutally cold nights here but no battery problems. I haven't tried charging my BattleBorn with the Wen. If we ever get out of here and go to Quartzsite I will find out how well my 200W solar panels do.

Hi: MyronL... You'll get a real "Charge" out of them!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[MyronL]

Bernie told me the same thing.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by 1200bruce

Looking at maybe a couple of Battle Born batteries, and a generator to charge them up.
It wouldn't have to drill a hole in the back for battery vapors, I heard it'll have to have a different charger for lithium.
I just don't want any more holes in the roof and we're going to go with a 12-volt compressor fridge with no vents in the side or on the roof.

Just for your consideration ....

Re: Battery vent - ETI cannot deliver any trailer without batteries (required for, at a minimum, the emergency 'break-away' brakes which must be functional when they hand-over the trailer). So, if you accept the standard lead-acid battery anticipating later install of your own BattleBorn Lithium, you'll already have that battery-box vapor vent through the back wall of the trailer. IF you order with lithium batteries installed by ETI, do you know if ETI then omits the battery-box vent? I do not know, that'd be something to verify with ETI.

Re: Compressor fridge / sidewall and roof vent - FWIW in my dialogue with ETI explicit to this point, I have been told by my ETI salesperson within the last month, that ETI is installing the same fridge sidewall and roof vents for both 3-way and 12VDC compressor refrigerators. They have determined (correctly, IMO) that both types of refrigerators they offer require both a lower and upper vent to dump the heat transferred by both types of refrigerators.

While NovaKool does offer a few models of compressor refrigerators that use a front-mounted lower vent (obviating the need for an exterior lower-sidewall vent), to date ETI has not agreed to offer those models as a standing option for their installation. And even that arrangement requires an upper (roof) vent per NovaKool installation guidance.

Bottom line, all refrigerators, regardless of energy source, work on the principle of transferring heat from the inside of the box to the outside of the box. The heat transferred outside of the refrigerator box (via condenser coils) must be vented somewhere away from the condenser coils to allow that heat transfer to be effective.

YMMV insofar as ETI options and customization at any instant in time, I urge you assume nothing and verify everything relating to your expectations through email dialogue with your assigned ETI sales / trailer configuration representative.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY

I was assuming when escape started offering lithium they would offer a different converter charger. It this not the case?

They are supposedly using the WFCO-8955LiS when lithium batteries are ordered. Shared on Centex’s matrix here.
https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/wf-8955lis/

[Centex]

FYI I just posted an 01-29-2021 revision of the Electrical and Solar Options matrix here.

There's several updates pertaining to lithium batteries since the original matrix linked in the above post.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

They are supposedly using the WFCO-8955LiS when lithium batteries are ordered. Shared on Centex’s matrix here.
https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/wf-8955lis/

Originally Posted by Centex

FYI I just posted an 01-29-2021 revision of the Electrical and Solar Options matrix here.

There's several updates pertaining to lithium batteries since the original matrix linked in the above post.

Glad to see there installing the proper converter and dc-dc charger.

I think I going to ride out my lead wet cells and see what the lithium technology is down the road. things are changing quickly.My big problem with Lithium is the storing the batteries at the 50% charge rate and dealing with the below freezing temps. oh ya the price.. I think as they progress in Rv industry you see better BMS inside these batteries . maybe something that will run them down and hold the 50% charge in storage. I know battle born says you can store there's between 50-85 % That is hard to maintain when you want your trailer ready to go at anytime.

Of course in my case i have to change converter and add a dc-dc charger. while camping there is a lot of advantages over lead acid.


edit I just noticed there no longer using the go power transfer switch . looks like they changed over to the wfco T-30

[kernwig]

I found this site, which has some reviews for lithium batteries that are less costly than Battleborn. https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/li...batteries.html

My (used) camper came with 6VDC AGMs, which are still good. I'll certainly go LiFePO4 when they need to be replaced.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY

I just noticed there no longer using the go power transfer switch . looks like they changed over to the wfco T-30

When have you seen a GoPower transfer switch? I’ve only ever seen the WFCO T-30.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

When have you seen a GoPower transfer switch? I’ve only ever seen the WFCO T-30.

When I was doing my build sheet and was considering adding the inverter . I asked for info and pictures on the install . pictures sent showed the inverter in the passenger side dinette. The go power transferred switch mounted to the black tank along side of the EMS unit. I guess I assumed they where all that way.

[rbryan4]

I would not go lithium, solar or not. Just prohibitively expensive to me.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by dstreight

Propane/gasoline generators won't typically give you the current quantity needed to take full advantage of the high current input capacity of LiFePO4; unless you truly only need 100A of battery per se. We have 400A/6500W LiFePO4 battery and at 12A DC going in, using a typical 2000w genset, it would take considerable time and fuel to replace 1/4-1/2 or more of the current used.

Why would you charge at only 12A from a 2 kW generator? Some of them have a 12V DC output that can only produce a few amps, but it makes no sense to use that with an Escape - just plug the trailer's shore power cord into the generator's 120 V AC outlet and charge with the trailer's converter/charger at up to 55 amps (which only needs less than half the generator's capacity). Of course if you want a full charge of a lithium-ion battery you need to adjust or change the converter/charger or get the right one with the trailer, but anyone installing a lithium-ion battery should do that anyway.

[Eggscape]

We just camp in our trailer and have no need for an inverter so the regular batteries with a bit of solar keeps us going just fine.

[dstreight]

@Brian B-P: I forgot about the converter as I've bypassed the one in our 15A with LFP...since it was a FLA variant and we rarely shore power and no genset.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by dstreight

@Brian B-P: I forgot about the converter as I've bypassed the one in our 15A with LFP...since it was a FLA variant and we rarely shore power and no genset.

"LFP" ?

[dstreight]

Lithium Iron Phosphate commonly abbreviated as LFP or LiFePO4.