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Old 06-30-2021, 10:28 AM   #21
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I already own 2 Champion 2000W inverters that are pretty quiet so hope to use for our newly-acquired 5.0 TA (2020). It would be great if one of these could actually run our AC as lugging 2 and running in parallel is burdensome. I plan to just try it and see if one will get it done. Anyone else have success using one of these Champion generators by itself without the "soft-start" device?
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Old 06-30-2021, 10:39 AM   #22
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2000w generator

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Originally Posted by thumper-tx View Post
The 2000i or the 2200i will not run the a/c in our 2016 - 21ft escape
Do you have a soft start installed in your A/C?
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Old 06-30-2021, 11:41 AM   #23
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Do you have a soft start installed in your A/C?
No soft start.
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Old 06-30-2021, 11:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
I already own 2 Champion 2000W inverters that are pretty quiet so hope to use for our newly-acquired 5.0 TA (2020). It would be great if one of these could actually run our AC as lugging 2 and running in parallel is burdensome. I plan to just try it and see if one will get it done. Anyone else have success using one of these Champion generators by itself without the "soft-start" device?
We have a 2000W/1800W Dual Fuel Champion inverter, Model 100402. We've only used it once with our 21C but it did, indeed power our Air Conditioner on propane for a few hours at a campground that was at around 1500ft. We made sure every other appliance was turned to propane and turned off the battery disconnect switch (a tip from ETI) while running the generator for the AC but left the EMS on since we used a ground plug in the inverter. (Thank you dear Forum friends for the ground plug tip.) I also recall during orientation that they said that our AC doesn't come with a 'soft start' per se but it does have some sort of delayed feature when it turns on so somehow this combo worked with our generator/inverter....a pleasant surprise. But the real test in performance will be at higher elevations. -Bea
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Old 06-30-2021, 06:50 PM   #25
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Picked up our champion 2500 inverter dual fuel. Ran our 11k BTU Dometic just fine yesterday on propane only. No soft start kit needed. Just FYI
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Old 06-30-2021, 10:17 PM   #26
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Soft Start

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Originally Posted by thumper-tx View Post
The 2000i or the 2200i will not run the a/c in our 2016 - 21ft escape
Are you going to invest in the soft start product?
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Old 07-02-2021, 05:10 PM   #27
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Champion 2500 dual fuel would be a good choice and run it well with a soft start.
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...QaAqLoEALw_wcB
PLUS the Champion is less than 1/2 the price of the Honda, will run on LP also. If needed you can "daisy chain" two together for a slug of energy for roughly the price of one Honda. Long long honeymoon on youtube tested one a few months ago. The secret to the LP is let it sit for several minutes before trying to start it.
My Champion 2500 starts on the 1st or 2nd pull......every time. Love it!
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Old 07-14-2021, 03:01 PM   #28
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My single 2000W Champion would NOT run our AC in the driveway. We live at 6000 ft which might be an influence.

When I installed the neutral bond plug, the EMS accepted the power with a single generator.

I then stacked the 2 generators and connected using the Champion 30A Parallel Operation Kit. I was not sure what to do with the neutral-ground bonding plug. I tried it with a single bonding plug in one of the two generators and received an E1 code on the Escape EMS panel I tried putting another bonding plug in the 2nd generator and it did not correct the E1 error.

So I guess I can try and contact Champion about the issue but I feel like I'm on the path to buy a new generator.

I'm going to start a new thread...
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Old 07-14-2021, 03:42 PM   #29
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Soft start?

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Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
My single 2000W Champion would NOT run our AC in the driveway. We live at 6000 ft which might be an influence.

When I installed the neutral bond plug, the EMS accepted the power with a single generator.

I then stacked the 2 generators and connected using the Champion 30A Parallel Operation Kit. I was not sure what to do with the neutral-ground bonding plug. I tried it with a single bonding plug in one of the two generators and received an E1 code on the Escape EMS panel I tried putting another bonding plug in the 2nd generator and it did not correct the E1 error.

So I guess I can try and contact Champion about the issue but I feel like I'm on the path to buy a new generator.

I'm going to start a new thread...
Do you have a soft start installed in your A/C?
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Old 07-14-2021, 04:03 PM   #30
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No soft start..
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Old 07-14-2021, 05:20 PM   #31
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Might I suggest putting the EMS in bypass and trying again instead of sourcing a new genset. That's why the switch is there after all...
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Old 07-14-2021, 05:43 PM   #32
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Thanks Bayner!

I do remember reading or hearing this on one of the videos!

Before I do that, is it OK to run the generators WITHOUT the bonded neutral and ground? These bonding plugs did not seem to be compatible with Champion's Parallel Operation adapter... although I did not try it with the EMS bypassed.

Any risk to appliances and/or AC running with bypassed EMS?
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Old 07-14-2021, 05:48 PM   #33
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There would have to be a generator malfunction to pose any risk. As with all of life, risk can rarely be reduced to zero, but in this case, it's pretty close. You can make your own choices of course, but if it were me, I would remove any additional plugs from the generators, shut off whatever eco modes they may have and when they are both up and running for a couple of minutes, turn on the A/C and see if that doesn't solve the problem. Let us know how you make out.
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:14 PM   #34
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I have used the Honda 2200 successfully with our 5.0 11000 kw dometic and no soft start but this was only at exterior temps in the low to mid 80s.

If you have the electric HWH option, make sure it is off before you try to start the AC, its easy to forget.

It may help to set your AC only a few degrees under the interior temperature and slowly drop it when running off a generator with lower wattage. Not an expert but I assume there may be more amp draw if you start the AC with an interior temp in the 90s and the thermostat set to the low 70s. Maybe some electrical savvy members know the answer.

I decided against propane for my honda due to the decrease in wattage that would result.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:02 PM   #35
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Bayner- thanks for the quick feedback. The two generators in parallel WITHOUT a bonding plug and with the EMS bypassed were able to run the AC without issue for a 10-minute trial. The two generators together are noisy but inside the trailer the AC drowns it out... neighbors may not appreciate it but if we need the AC we need it...

As to risk, I assume the neutral-ground bond is about mitigating shock hazards in event of a short within the wiring or in an appliance, correct? Given the lack of a true ground for a portable generator, why is a neutral-ground bonding plug even used? Does this bonding plug practically reduce risk for shock hazards when an ungrounded generator is used as a power source?

akmacs- thanks for the info on your Honda. Forgive me but what is "HWH"? Is that hot water heat? If so, it was off and the single Champion would not run the AC. Maybe the Honda 2200 is just enough "bigger" to get it done or like you say, there may be other factors.

Speaking of other factors, these Champion generators do not have any altitude compensation in their carbs. I changed the plugs and they were VERY sooty. When I asked Champion about that, their response was to tell me to drill holes in the air filter housing to "let more air in". Hmmmmmm... Since we live near and plan to visit many campgrounds above 8000 feet, I think I'd feel better knowing there is more margin to offset the power loss at even higher altitudes.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
akmacs- thanks for the info on your Honda. Forgive me but what is "HWH"? Is that hot water heat?
It is the hot water heater but I should have added that it only applies if you have the electric heating element. When the element is turned on and heating there is too much electrical demand for a 2000 or 2200 watt generator if trying to also run the ac.
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Old 07-15-2021, 07:43 AM   #37
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Talking

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Bayner- thanks for the quick feedback. The two generators in parallel WITHOUT a bonding plug and with the EMS bypassed were able to run the AC without issue for a 10-minute trial. The two generators together are noisy but inside the trailer the AC drowns it out... neighbors may not appreciate it but if we need the AC we need it...

As to risk, I assume the neutral-ground bond is about mitigating shock hazards in event of a short within the wiring or in an appliance, correct? Given the lack of a true ground for a portable generator, why is a neutral-ground bonding plug even used? Does this bonding plug practically reduce risk for shock hazards when an ungrounded generator is used as a power source?

akmacs- thanks for the info on your Honda. Forgive me but what is "HWH"? Is that hot water heat? If so, it was off and the single Champion would not run the AC. Maybe the Honda 2200 is just enough "bigger" to get it done or like you say, there may be other factors.

Speaking of other factors, these Champion generators do not have any altitude compensation in their carbs. I changed the plugs and they were VERY sooty. When I asked Champion about that, their response was to tell me to drill holes in the air filter housing to "let more air in". Hmmmmmm... Since we live near and plan to visit many campgrounds above 8000 feet, I think I'd feel better knowing there is more margin to offset the power loss at even higher altitudes.
If your gensets start to run very rich the unburned fuel can start to wash oil off the cylinder walls which will wear out the piston rings in no time at all.
That's why I put a propane fuel kit on my Honda generator. The A/F ratio can be adjusted as needed for altitude changes by just turning a plug on the regulator. The spark plug and engine oil will stay clean much longer too.
And with a dual generator setup reduced power with propane shouldn't be a problem. I've run my A/C at 7000 ft a lot with no problem.
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Old 07-15-2021, 08:26 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
Bayner- thanks for the quick feedback. The two generators in parallel WITHOUT a bonding plug and with the EMS bypassed were able to run the AC without issue for a 10-minute trial. The two generators together are noisy but inside the trailer the AC drowns it out... neighbors may not appreciate it but if we need the AC we need it...

As to risk, I assume the neutral-ground bond is about mitigating shock hazards in event of a short within the wiring or in an appliance, correct? Given the lack of a true ground for a portable generator, why is a neutral-ground bonding plug even used? Does this bonding plug practically reduce risk for shock hazards when an ungrounded generator is used as a power source?

akmacs- thanks for the info on your Honda. Forgive me but what is "HWH"? Is that hot water heat? If so, it was off and the single Champion would not run the AC. Maybe the Honda 2200 is just enough "bigger" to get it done or like you say, there may be other factors.

Speaking of other factors, these Champion generators do not have any altitude compensation in their carbs. I changed the plugs and they were VERY sooty. When I asked Champion about that, their response was to tell me to drill holes in the air filter housing to "let more air in". Hmmmmmm... Since we live near and plan to visit many campgrounds above 8000 feet, I think I'd feel better knowing there is more margin to offset the power loss at even higher altitudes.
The only reason for the neutral/ground bonding plug it to make the EMS happy. It looks for the tie between the neutral & the ground that normally takes place in the campground service entrance. Since most small inverter generators do not bond the neutral to ground, the EMS faults.

As to the safety of running an unbounded generator, that is a discussion that is never ending, and complex, particularly when combining a generator with an already grounded utility supplied system. In the case of a small generator feeding a trailer, there is no need for the bond other than to keep the EMS working properly.
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Old 07-15-2021, 09:40 AM   #39
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Thank you Jon
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Old 07-15-2021, 09:55 AM   #40
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Quote:
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If your gensets start to run very rich the unburned fuel can start to wash oil off the cylinder walls which will wear out the piston rings in no time at all.
That's why I put a propane fuel kit on my Honda generator. The A/F ratio can be adjusted as needed for altitude changes by just turning a plug on the regulator. The spark plug and engine oil will stay clean much longer too.
And with a dual generator setup reduced power with propane shouldn't be a problem. I've run my A/C at 7000 ft a lot with no problem.
Thank you rotorbudd

My Champions were purchased for emergency household power backup a few years ago before we moved from sea level to 6000 ft and bought the Escape. I expect lugging both of them while camping will motivate me to purchase a single unit capable of running the AC. I like the idea of running off propane and the adjustability is good to know. Seems the dual fuel option on a 2500W generator under 50 lbs might make sense and cover the AC. 3000W would add margin but I'm not seeing light-weight options for that output size.
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