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04-04-2018, 08:50 AM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ravena, New York
Trailer: Getting a 21NE early next year
Posts: 291
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I'm not an engineer, but maybe one of you folks know the answer here better than me.
When I built my hot rod frame I used 2X3 tubing. A lot of guys did it with 1/8 wall, but then others said use 3/16. So I went for overkill and did the 3/16. Does it make a difference for chassis strength?
Also, I welded a significant kick up in the rear of my frame for the Jaguar IRS I installed. If kick ups are done correctly, there is no need for strengthening plates. I drove that hot rod for 11 years with nary a problem.
I'm getting it ready to go back on the road now after a 24 inch frame extension for a 4 seat body replacing the old 2 seat one.
Frank
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04-04-2018, 09:02 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
I'm not an engineer, but maybe one of you folks know the answer here better than me.
When I built my hot rod frame I used 2X3 tubing. A lot of guys did it with 1/8 wall, but then others said use 3/16. So I went for overkill and did the 3/16. Does it make a difference for chassis strength?
Also, I welded a significant kick up in the rear of my frame for the Jaguar IRS I installed. If kick ups are done correctly, there is no need for strengthening plates. I drove that hot rod for 11 years with nary a problem.
I'm getting it ready to go back on the road now after a 24 inch frame extension for a 4 seat body replacing the old 2 seat one.
Frank
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Hi: frank_a... I'm on my second 5.0 and haven't been "Framed" yet!!! Yes there were some issues with the 19'ers but not the 5.0's or the 5.0TA's. I feel that some forum opinions are answers in search of questions. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
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04-04-2018, 09:05 AM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ravena, New York
Trailer: Getting a 21NE early next year
Posts: 291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist
Hi: frank_a... I'm on my second 5.0 and haven't been "Framed" yet!!! Yes there were some issues with the 19'ers but not the 5.0's or the 5.0TA's. I feel that some forum opinions are answers in search of questions. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Alf, I'm just hoping to be on my first 5.0TA!
No comment regarding opinions, etc...
Frank
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04-04-2018, 02:19 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
When I built my hot rod frame I used 2X3 tubing. A lot of guys did it with 1/8 wall, but then others said use 3/16. So I went for overkill and did the 3/16. Does it make a difference for chassis strength?
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Height and width are not so simple, but bending and tensile strength are simply directly proportional to wall thickness, so 3/16" wall tubing would be 50% stronger (and stiffer) than 1/8" wall (for the same alloy).
If you use the same mass of steel, but in a taller and/or wider section with thinner wall, the result will be stiffer and ideally stronger, but runs a greater risk of buckling. At the other extreme, a solid square bar of the same mass won't buckle, but will be hopelessly flexible and weak.
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04-04-2018, 02:39 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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While the current brochure lists this:
Quote:
The frames are constructed with 4” box steel...
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... it is now apparent that this is in error for current trailers. My guess is that it has never been correct for the 5.0TA, and was an erroneous duplication from the description of the 21'. The current brochure for the 21' contains the same paragraph, and everything in it is applicable to both models, other than the frame section size.
There is at least one other reference to frame size on the Escape website: the Points to Ponder page currently contains this:
Quote:
The trailer chassis is constructed with 1/8” thick and 2″x 4” certified structural steel tubing (5.0TA uses 2″x 3″)
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However, this is a very recent correction and according to the Wayback Machine archive, this page previously said (from the earliest available archive of this page on 2014 Mar 05 to at least 2017 Jul 01)
with no mention of the 5.0TA. This is what I recall from over a decade ago, but based on information provided during the frame recall, this was clearly obsolete by the end of 2014 for all models.
By 2017 Sep 02 it had been changed to
... still with no mention of the 5.0TA, and this was still the text as of the most recent sample on 2017 Sep 17.
So, no one using information published by Escape up to at least last September would expect a 2"x3" frame under any Escape, including the 5.0TA. That size of material (of unknown wall thickness) may be perfectly suitable and as the design intended, but the confusion and concern of owners seems perfectly understandable to me.
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04-04-2018, 03:00 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
... it is now apparent that this is in error for current trailers. My guess is that it has never been correct for the 5.0TA
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Mine was #6, it has 2x3, looks like you are correct.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
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04-04-2018, 03:25 PM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin
Mine was #6, it has 2x3, looks like you are correct.
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Thanks Bob, I think that now covers all of the 5.0TA variants.
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04-04-2018, 03:45 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Thank you Brian for all your helpful explanations and information
It will certainly help a prospective purchaser make a more informed decision
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04-04-2018, 06:26 PM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ,, Oklahoma
Trailer: 17
Posts: 840
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Appreciate it Brian for all your helpful explanations and info
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04-05-2018, 11:26 AM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NA, Arizona
Trailer: 2017 5.0TA
Posts: 549
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Mystery solved
Thanks Brain,
This now make sense and explains why some owners where under the impression the frames where fabricated with T1.
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04-05-2018, 12:27 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NA, Arizona
Trailer: 2017 5.0TA
Posts: 549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Height and width are not so simple, but bending and tensile strength are simply directly proportional to wall thickness, so 3/16" wall tubing would be 50% stronger (and stiffer) than 1/8" wall (for the same alloy).
If you use the same mass of steel, but in a taller and/or wider section with thinner wall, the result will be stiffer and ideally stronger, but runs a greater risk of buckling. At the other extreme, a solid square bar of the same mass won't buckle, but will be hopelessly flexible and weak.
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Hi Brain,
your assessment is sound. There is one thing I would add. When designing and fabricating structural supports or frames in this case, metal type and thickness plays an important role during the fabricating process especially when miter joints and welding are utilized. Care must be taken with clear welding specifications and Technic as this has a direct impact on the strength and durability of the structure. There is a BIG difference between welding 1/8 and 3/16 steel for structural use.
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04-05-2018, 03:23 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
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Hi: All... In the case of the 5.0TA frame does ETI not use "Fish plates" where the two angle tubes meet? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
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02-04-2019, 10:16 AM
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#53
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,023
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Not that it matters, but now I'm going to need to go measure.... someday.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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02-05-2019, 07:55 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Westcliffe, Colorado
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper (#083); 2017 Escape 21 (#053); 2016 F-150 5.0L FX4
Posts: 1,765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
Not that it matters, but now I'm going to need to go measure.... someday.
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Donna D., Since you brought this thread back to life, I'll add the photo of our 2017 21's frame construction that I intended to contribute some time back (post #8). It shows the transition from 4" main frame to 3" rear frame extension (from rear axle back) - 3" welded over 4".
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02-05-2019, 10:30 AM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by War Eagle
Donna D., Since you brought this thread back to life, I'll add the photo of our 2017 21's frame construction that I intended to contribute some time back (post #8). It shows the transition from 4" main frame to 3" rear frame extension (from rear axle back) - 3" welded over 4".
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Thanks for posting. In another thread recently I stated that 21's have always had a 4" frame. Not wanting to confuse the issue I did not include that it goes to 3" in the rear where the floor bumps up. I guess I should have stated "21's have a 4" frame from the coupler to just rear of the axles". I think the take away though is that the frame is larger and strongest where it matters....the axle connection and the long span from the axle to the coupler.
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