2020 Sierra vs. 5.0TA

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Centex

I can't shake the feeling that there's some miscommunication going on with regard to PM15283's clearance issue(s) and/or setup.

Maybe there really is something unique with this particular pickup / tailgate, but it's obvious other 5.0 owners are having trouble visualizing / understanding / 'accepting' if that's the case?

Pics from PM15283 would be worth 1000 words, to communicate the situation and aide other owners in offering applicable suggestions, IMO.

• Tailgate down, truck backed to almost touching trailer, showing from front of trailer to hitch in the bed; would reveal how far the trailer coupler is from the in-bed hitch-ball (would also show coupler orientation and give an idea of hitch location in the bed)
• Side view of rig fully coupled (tailgate up / closed), which would show rail clearances, pin-box location in the bed, rig level-ness, etc

Just sayin' ....

Read and understand all the posts and it now makes sense to me. His turnover ball was installed too far forward, putting the camper closer to the truck, making it impossible to open the tailgate when connected. He has turned the Andersen receiver to the forward position, so the tailgate can open, but it's now easier to hit the bed sides/tailgate.

The answer is to either purchase the ball you showed in post 32 and hope that works with his Andersen Hitch, or have the turnover ball reinstalled in the correct position, but that leaves a hole in his truck bed to be corrected. Personally, I would have the turnover ball reinstalled in the correct position and take the truck to a body shop to have the hole repaired.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Centex

I can't shake the feeling that there's some miscommunication going on with regard to PM15283's clearance issue(s) and/or setup.

Maybe there really is something unique with this particular pickup / tailgate, but it's obvious other 5.0 owners are having trouble visualizing / understanding / 'accepting' if that's the case?

Pics from PM15283 would be worth 1000 words, to communicate the situation and aide other owners in offering applicable suggestions, IMO.

• Tailgate down, truck backed to almost touching trailer, showing from front of trailer to hitch in the bed; would reveal how far the trailer coupler is from the in-bed hitch-ball (would also show coupler orientation and give an idea of hitch location in the bed)
• Side view of rig fully coupled (tailgate up / closed), which would show rail clearances, pin-box location in the bed, rig level-ness, etc

Just sayin' ....

🤔Read post # 11. He nailed it that’s his problem.
If I flip the pin adapter around on my F150 it will do the same thing. I tried it that way originally but realized I got dangerously close to side of bed and reversed it before ever damaging anything. On my truck and others here I can lower tail gate with truck straight to trailer but not if it’s angled to trailer. There’s no mystery here it’s geometry. If you can’t live with it you can go to extraordinary measures like relocating hitch or jacking trailer to extreme heights or getting a special tailgate. But for most the standard set up works.

[PM15283]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Read and understand all the posts and it now makes sense to me. His turnover ball was installed too far forward, putting the camper closer to the truck, making it impossible to open the tailgate when connected. He has turned the Andersen receiver to the forward position, so the tailgate can open, but it's now easier to hit the bed sides/tailgate.



The answer is to either purchase the ball you showed in post 32 and hope that works with his Andersen Hitch, or have the turnover ball reinstalled in the correct position, but that leaves a hole in his truck bed to be corrected. Personally, I would have the turnover ball reinstalled in the correct position and take the truck to a body shop to have the hole repaired.



Enjoy,



Perry

I think Perry may have it figured out. Now I can't pull up photos I took, as requested. Turning the Andersen receiver (covered in red plastic) forward gave me 9 inches more from tailgate to trailer frame. With tailgate down I now have about 7 inches from tailgate to trailer frame. With "MultiPro" Tailgate down I can now stand between truck and trailer for easy access to things in truck bed. The negative until I can get the Andersen turnover ball repositioned is that I will be towing nose up and putting more weight on the trailer rear axle. Thanks for all the help!

[Centex]

Thanks for the pics PM15283. Two questions ...

1. Is the distance from the back edge of your Sierra 1500's less-than-8ft-bed to the centerline of the in-bed turnover ball ~44-1/8"?
2. Is the turnoverball that's installed under / through your bed a "B&W" brand assembly? (Andersen does not sell any underbed turnoverball assembly, that must come from a 3rd-party vendor)

[PM15283]

The under-bed assy is B&W and the truck bed is 6 1/2'. I'll check the other dimension.

44 1/8 from center of turnover ball to end of truck bed is what it is.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by PM15283

The under-bed assy is B&W and the truck bed is 6 1/2'. I'll check the other dimension.

44 1/8 from center of turnover ball to end of truck bed is what it is.

Thank you. That tells us / you that your in-bed ball is located at the one and only correct position provided by the B&W Turnoverball design for your vehicle. The shop that installed your B&W Turnoverball did their job right.

You may not like that location with the combination of the Andersen Hitch and 5.0TA, but nonetheless your ball location is correct for that specific underbed assembly, and cannot be altered without unintended and potentially compromising modification of the B&W assembly. All of this is explicitly described in the B&W Turnoverball Installation Instructions I linked in post #32, item 2, paragraph 2 above.

Note that not all underbed gooseneck kits (or rail kits) locate the ball (or rails) in exactly the same location - that can vary front-to-rear by a several inches depending on the kit brand/model and vehicle-application specifics. That is to say, different kits may locate the in-bed ball (or rails) at a different location relative to the rear-axle centerline by +/- several inches.

As you are learning, several inches can be critical for some intended uses. IF you are intent on a different in-bed ball location for your Sierra, with careful shopping you may find a different brand kit that locates the in-bed ball more favorably in your specific vehicle and for your specific intended use with the Andersen hitch / Escape 5.0TA. Or, a competent hitch-fabricator may build a custom-mount located to your specifications.

Good Luck!

[PM15283]

Thanks, all! Time to accept, I guess. As it sits now I just make less severe turns, mostly when parking.
Again, a great group that provided their usual good help!

Phil

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Centex

Thank you. That tells us / you that your in-bed ball is located at the one and only correct position provided by the B&W Turnoverball design for your vehicle. The shop that installed your B&W Turnoverball did their job right

Until it's verified by others it doesn't necessarily mean it was installed correctly. People and companies screw up all the time.

Are there any other B&W Turnover ball installations on this forum that could help identify if the B&W was or was not installed correctly for your Andersen Hitch? Can you open your tailgate with the camper hooked up? If so what distance from the tailgate is the center of the ball.

What other turnover ball systems besides B&W are others using?

Shouldn't a turnover ball location from the tailgate be standardized like for bed rails? If not standardized others would have the same problem. I still believe something is wrong with the turnover ball installation. OTOH, I've been wrong in the past.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Centex]

Originally Posted by PM15283

44 1/8 from center of turnover ball to end of truck bed is what it is.

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Until it's verified by others it doesn't necessarily mean it was installed correctly.

Well, PM15283 confirmed by his own measurement that at least insofar as location his is located at the one position provided for that hitch on his specific vehicle per B&W's specification for that vehicle which I attached to my previous post (and linked in full in post #32). Do we really need a 3rd party to confirm PM15283's tape measurement on his own vehicle??

You can readily verify that I'm referencing the correct specs for his specific vehicle by using the application selector on the B&W website and downloading the installation instructions yourself (if you need more than the application note on the specs I linked).

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Are there any other B&W Turnover ball installations on this forum that could help identify if the B&W was or was not installed correctly?

For that to be meaningful the comparison must be against another short-bed Sierra, either 2019 or 2020 model year. That's the vehicle PM15283 has and that's the vehicle kit specifications I've been referencing. B&W Turnoverball locations are vehicle / application-specific.

As an example: The centerline of the model-specific B&W Turnoverball installed in my 6.5ft bed F150 per B&W specifications is located 45-5/8" from the back edge of the bed (1-1/2" different / forward of that measurement specified by B&W for the subject Sierra application). ALL of these dimensions are vehicle specific.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Centex

Well, PM15283 confirmed by his own measurement that at least insofar as location his is located at the one position provided for that hitch on his specific vehicle per B&W's specification for that vehicle which I attached to my previous post (and linked in full in post #32). Do we really need a 3rd party to confirm PM15283's tape measurement on his own vehicle??

For that to be meaningful the comparison must be against the another short-bed Sierra, either 2019 or 2020 model year. That's the vehicle PM15283 has and that's the vehicle kit specifications I've been referencing. B&W Turnoverball locations are vehicle / application-specific.

As an example: The centerline of the model-specific B&W Turnoverball installed in my 6.5ft bed F150 per B&W specifications is located 45-5/8" from the back edge of the bed (1-1/2" different from that measurement specified by B&W for the subject Sierra application). ALL of these dimensions are vehicle specific.

Yes, we need to see if someone with a 2019/2020 Sierra has a B&W hitch and it is located properly. No matter what vehicle is used, the ball should be in the same location relative to the tailgate. The OP's ball is too far forward. The same would apply to a rail hitch. If that's not the case, than I wouldn't purchase a B&W turnover ball for an Andersen Hitch used with a Escape camper. As has already been shown, something is wrong here.

When I had our rails installed I asked for the rails to be 1" closer to the tailgate. I had to sign my name to the invoice for them to install them closer because they were uncomfortable with my request, releasing them from any liability due to my request. 8,000 miles of pulling the camper and are much happier with the tailgate/camper clearance.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

No matter what vehicle is used, the ball should be in the same location relative to the tailgate.

Respectfully, this belies a misimpression about the facts of different gooseneck ball kits and different vehicles.

Originally Posted by Perryb67

The OP's ball is too far forward.

So, are you saying that my F150 Turnoverball, which is even farther forward of the tailgate by 1-1/2" than the OP's, as specified by B&W for each application, is installed "improperly"?

(I know that to not be the case, though I don't have attestation of a 3rd party to that fact handy )

Originally Posted by Perryb67

As has already been shown, something is wrong here.

IMO the only thing "wrong" here is the expectation that all B&W Turnoverball kits (or any other underbed hitch kit for that matter), when installed "properly" as defined by the hitch kit manufacturer, are all in the same exact location or equally amenable to use with the Andersen Hitch / Escape 5.0TA combination.

Originally Posted by Perryb67

If that's not the case, than I wouldn't purchase a B&W turnover ball for an Andersen Hitch used with a Escape camper.

That might be a reasonable conclusion for 2019/2020 Sierra short-bed owners.

The fact is, the "proper" location for 'no-drill' vehicle-specific underbed goosneck kits is dictated by the hitch-kit and vehicle particulars, not by whether or not it 'plays nice' with the Andersen/5.0TA combination.

Yes, it's quite possible that something can be modified outside of the hitch manufacturer's intended application and recommendations, but that's not the subject of any of this thread.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Centex

Prospective Escape 5.0TA purchaser

I just noticed in your signature line you don't even own a 5.0. So you don't know if your B&W ball will allow you to open your tailgate yet.

Respectfully, this belies a misimpression about the facts of different gooseneck ball kits and different vehicles.

The ball needs to be in the same location (within tolerances) to work properly with the Escape 5.0. If not, you'll have a problem like the OP.

Originally Posted by Centex

Yes, it's quite possible that something can be modified outside of the hitch manufacturer's intended application and recommendations, but that's not the subject of any of this thread.

The subject of this thread is the OP's B&W turnover ball mount is in the incorrect location to work properly with his 5.0.

So, are you saying that my F150 Turnoverball, which is even farther forward of the tailgate by 1-1/2" than the OP's, as specified by B&W for each application, is installed "improperly"?

No, that if installed correctly does not work properly with his Escape 5.0 the OP has a problem.

IMO the only thing "wrong" here is the expectation that all B&W Turnoverball kits (or any other underbed hitch kit for that matter), when installed "properly" as defined by the hitch kit manufacturer, are all in the same exact location or equally amenable to use with the Andersen Hitch / Escape 5.0TA combination.

Yes.

That might be a reasonable conclusion for 2019/2020 Sierra short-bed owners.

Yes.

The fact is, the "proper" location for 'no-drill' vehicle-specific underbed goosneck kits is dictated by the hitch-kit and vehicle particulars, not by whether or not it 'plays nice' with the Andersen/5.0TA combination.

Unfortunately, yes.

Finally, I farmed at one time and am familiar with gooseneck hitches. A true gooseneck has much more leeway than the Andersen receiver/hitch/pin box that comes on an Escape 5.0.

Perry

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Chotch

🤔 round peg in square hole.....
You can make it work but it ain’t pretty...

Round peg in square hole can work but square peg in round hole...not so much!

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

I just noticed in your signature line you don't even own a 5.0. So you don't know if your B&W ball will allow you to open your tailgate yet.

Actually, I do know the answer to that question based simple evaluation of my truck's measurements, Andersen's published dimensions data, and the data published in ETI's 5.0 Towing Compatibility Guidelines.

But that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread other than to highlight that there are resources available for prospective purchasers to make such determinations before purchase of the 5.0TA (or a particular hitch). Thankfully it's not necessary for folks to suffer the inconvenience of empirical trial-and-error to assemble a rig that works for them.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Centex

So, are you saying that my F150 Turnoverball, which is even farther forward of the tailgate by 1-1/2" than the OP's, as specified by B&W for each application, is installed "improperly"?

If you're ball is located 1 1/2" further forward than the OP's, your 5.0 with be 1 1/2" closer to the trailer making the tailgate even harder to open. OTOH if you meant to say "further back" then you're probably OK. Something is amiss here.

Originally Posted by Centex

Actually, I do know the answer to that question based simple evaluation of my truck's measurements, Andersen's published dimensions data, and the data published in ETI's 5.0 Towing Compatibility Guidelines.

Originally Posted by Centex

But that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread other than to highlight that there are resources available for prospective purchasers to make such determinations before purchase of the 5.0TA (or a particular hitch).

Yup. I wonder how many owners have actually checked the specs for their turnover ball before installing?

I wonder which turnover ball Trademasters would have installed in his truck?

I wonder if Trademasters would have stood behind this installation?

Perry

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

If you're ball is located 1 1/2" further forward than the OP's, your 5.0 with be 1 1/2" closer to the trailer making the tailgate even harder to open. OTOH if you meant to say "further back" then you're probably OK. Something is amiss here.

i stand by my statement as posted. Nope, nothing "amiss", it's just the facts of the specific situation. Again, not all vehicle / hitch / trailer combinations are equally 'convenient'.

BTW, in my case the B&W Turnoverball was properly installed in the truck years ago, for other coincident purposes (towing true gooseneck utility trailers), long before I began contemplating purchase of an Escape 5.0TA. Again, the location of the turnoverball is dictated by B&W fitment requirements for each vehicle, not by 'suitability' for any particular end-use application.

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Yup. I wonder how many owners have actually checked the specs for their turnover ball before installing?

I won't speculate on that, I'll just point out that thorough due diligence is in order before making any major purchase or 'permanent' installation, that the resources are available to conduct such due diligence, and perhaps threads like this will help folks understand the importance of that effort.

IMO ETI has done a great service in that regard with the relatively recent online publication of their 5.0 Towing Compatibility Guideline document, and the warnings / counsel / disclaimers on page 1 of that document. We note that ETI now highlights the availability of that document, and encourages potential buyers to read it, on their web pages promoting the Escape 5.0.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

Round peg in square hole can work but square peg in round hole...not so much!

You obviously need a bigger hammer......

[Tin]

Centex, you are correct and have a clear mechanical understanding. Others not so much. The Anderson has a few peculiarities that most people accept ( tailgate to close to trailer ). The OP does not accept this and would rather risk blowing out the side rail of his truck. There are other options BUT ?

[Centex]

To the degree I might have any understanding about this stuff, I certainly have no unique powers of comprehension and that degree of understanding has required no small effort to acquire. IMO anyone is capable that, or better.

Yeah, I'm not gonna comment on the OPs choices given where he finds himself now - that's rightfully his prerogative, IMO. I do think it unfortunate that he's in the situation he's in given that there might have been other more attractive alternatives. So it goes; water under the bridge; etc.

I certainly understand that there's often some degree of compromise, in one respect or another, with certain vehicle / hitch / trailer combos. IMO the 'trick' is understanding those up-front so compromises can be informed rather than a 'surprise'.

In my particular case, again just as an example, my older F150 does not have any cam / electronics in the tailgate, so the tailgate lends to quick and easy lift-off removal (I often did just that when towing gooseneck utility trailers). While that's a 'compromise' it's one that's acceptable to me, the challenge of keeping things in the bed being addressed by a low 'stop board' across the back of the bed in lieu of the tailgate when towing.

For me that's an acceptable trade-off, I know before buying the Andersen Hitch or the 5.0 that in all other respects that would provide excellent clearances for the attractive Andersen / 5.0TA combination, and certainly ease the hookup / disconnect process without any concern at all about tailgate clearance. But that's me and my particular case .... other's might well not prefer that 'solution' if in my shoes, or might not have a similar option available with their particular trucks.

Choices and and having option decisions is good, especially if made on a well-informed basis. Yeah, it can take some effort to get to that point, but the same can be said about many aspects of RV'ing, Escape or not, bumper-pull and 'fivers' alike.

That's the beauty of great forums like this one ... they can help all of us make better informed choices for our particular wants-and-needs

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Chotch

You obviously need a bigger hammer......

Doing home renovations over the years my step father would tell me to get him the BFH Big F*@#in Hammer. Hit it with a hammer...if it doesn't go hit it with a bigger hammer...if it breaks it needed fixin anyway!