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Old 02-10-2022, 06:19 AM   #1
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21C Bed Support Structure

Okay, I'm really having trouble wrapping my head around ETI's Floating T-Beam center bed support and am calling on the skilled Escape brains for help. Maybe I'm having a chemo brain moment but it's driving me a little goofy.

This floating t-beam is not attached to any vertical support structure on the bathroom wall side or the exterior wall side. It is simply attached to the plywood with wood screws. Samuel sent me photos confirming this but he says they have had no issues. With the exception of screwing on the not shown hinged plywood piece to the floating t-beam Samuel said this is complete.

I feel I need to add a vertical center support as shown for longevity of this intersection. It's really not a big deal and would take me 2 minutes to do but.........

Soooo, how is the hinged plywood section supported at the center area of the floating beam?

Maybe I just need to sit around a campfire with a cold beverage in my hand.
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:26 AM   #2
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The hinges secure the hatch to the other side of plywood, and on mine there's 3 or 4 posts supporting the center stringer behind the water heater and pump.

You can just see the edges of them here,

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Old 02-10-2022, 07:11 AM   #3
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Thanks John but I did ask ETI about those supports and was told the picture shown was a completed structure with the exception of attached the hinged plywood.
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:58 AM   #4
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Does anyone know if Escape has moved away from foil backed insulation?

Based on this photo ETI sent me yesterday of a current unit in production it appears they have under the bed. I pointed out the missing insulation above the driver's side access panel to them. Hopefully they fix that before the new owner questions why it's so cold on that side of the bed.
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Old 02-10-2022, 10:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by WillyB View Post
Okay, I'm really having trouble wrapping my head around ETI's Floating T-Beam center bed support and am calling on the skilled Escape brains for help. Maybe I'm having a chemo brain moment but it's driving me a little goofy.

This floating t-beam is not attached to any vertical support structure on the bathroom wall side or the exterior wall side. It is simply attached to the plywood with wood screws. Samuel sent me photos confirming this but he says they have had no issues. With the exception of screwing on the not shown hinged plywood piece to the floating t-beam Samuel said this is complete.

I feel I need to add a vertical center support as shown for longevity of this intersection. It's really not a big deal and would take me 2 minutes to do but.........

Soooo, how is the hinged plywood section supported at the center area of the floating beam?

Maybe I just need to sit around a campfire with a cold beverage in my hand.
And owners wondered why their bed squeeks! I changed the supports in my bed as soon as I came back from picking it up. On the way back, I slept on the window side and could feel the plywood bending and cracking (big butt syndrome). It looks like Escape has went even worse with the bed support. No way is that going to hold up.

Here are pics of my improved bed support frame. I cut bisquit slots in the end of each cross board and the matching spot on the outside support boards, then bowed them enough to get the bisquits into the slots along with titebond glue. New T bracing under the cross boards completed the mod.

I asked Reace why he cut the boards short of the drivers side of the bed supports and he said it was to leave space for the wiring loom to travel.

You can see the wiring loom running down the drivers side support board in the "before" first pic. I just cut a notch in the boards just under the cross boards in the T brace to do the same thing. The notch is shown in the second pic. While I was there, I added wire loom covers to keep from snagging a wire dragging stuff out the hatch. The third pic is the modified bracing next to the hot water heater. I extended the T bracing to under the cross board to keep that section rigid. The improved bracing makes the hinged opening stronger.

Oh, and all the boards and plywood were coated with urethane varnish as that area gets moist with condensation during cooler weather.

These boards are so strong that my big butt can set on any one board without breaking it. With the plywood screwed to them, the bed frame is very rigid and doesn't squeek anymore.
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Bed prior to upgrade.jpg   IMG_20170404_120440.jpg   IMG_20170404_120503.jpg   Bed after upgrade.jpg  
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Old 02-10-2022, 10:55 AM   #6
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Does anyone know if Escape has moved away from foil backed insulation?

Based on this photo ETI sent me yesterday of a current unit in production it appears they have under the bed. I pointed out the missing insulation above the driver's side access panel to them. Hopefully they fix that before the new owner questions why it's so cold on that side of the bed.
Escape just keeps making "improvements" based on reducing cost.

That area under the bed tends to sweat in cool weather. Using open cell foam creates a great place for mold to grow. I see another place a new owner would want to change.
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Old 02-10-2022, 11:13 AM   #7
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TDF,

Great job on the bed support.

I'll let you know ETI's response to my question about the foam. I seriously doubt that they care.

After pointing this out to Samuel I hope the owner of the unit from the pictures gets something better than what ETI has shown.
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Old 02-10-2022, 11:23 AM   #8
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TDF,

Great job on the bed support.

I'll let you know ETI's response to my question about the foam. I seriously doubt that they care.

After pointing this out to Samuel I hope the owner of the unit from the pictures gets something better than what ETI has shown.
I doubt that ETI will improve their methods of construction with being oversold for years of production.

It makes me more appreciative of my trailer as I have "corrected" all the goofs in construction I have found and "if" I bought a new trailer, I would have to start all over again to fix it. It's sad that ETI doesn't take feedback from owners to improve their trailers - maybe when sales start to drop, they will be more attentive.
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Old 02-10-2022, 03:14 PM   #9
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Considering how Escape management is handling stove explosions…I don’t trust what they say about anything else failing or not.

My best source of real life Escape problems is this forum.
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Old 02-10-2022, 03:55 PM   #10
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All in all I'm really not too worried about what I'll be getting from Escape. I am not expecting an Escape Trailer to be a high quality unit. I am expecting it to be a slight bit better than a typical sticky wrapped up in a fiberglass shell.

This forum is great because of how active it is with commentary, expertise and photos. But this drives questions that would normally never come up when purchasing another basic unit.

As far as the bed structure goes, I will add proper structuring to repair their incompetence.

I wonder if we'll see Karl touting the quality of his 21C bed frames in an upcoming video.
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Old 02-10-2022, 05:56 PM   #11
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I’m not getting this sudden hand-wringing about the bed framing. If I understand what I’ve read, this design originated in the Reace and Tammy days and didn’t appear to be much of an issue. Now, all of a sudden, Escape doesn’t care about it’s customers because they still do it that way? Sorry, but I don’t get it.

If this is all about the foam insulation, what is the problem? Is anyone out there having issues with it?
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:10 PM   #12
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I’m not getting this sudden hand-wringing about the bed framing. If I understand what I’ve read, this design originated in the Reace and Tammy days and didn’t appear to be much of an issue. Now, all of a sudden, Escape doesn’t care about it’s customers because they still do it that way? Sorry, but I don’t get it.

If this is all about the foam insulation, what is the problem? Is anyone out there having issues with it?
You said it first. I agree 100%. How many folks have reported the structure on their bed failed? It may not be how I would have constructed it but it's not a big deal either. Enough of this bad mouthing ETI over something that hasn't proven to be a problem.


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Old 02-10-2022, 06:18 PM   #13
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I’m not getting this sudden hand-wringing about the bed framing. If I understand what I’ve read, this design originated in the Reace and Tammy days and didn’t appear to be much of an issue. Now, all of a sudden, Escape doesn’t care about it’s customers because they still do it that way? Sorry, but I don’t get it.

If this is all about the foam insulation, what is the problem? Is anyone out there having issues with it?
Take a look at the OP's picture in the first post. ETI is not doing the bed framing like the Reace and Tammy days - they have eliminated critical frame supports near the hot water heater.

The OP asked for pics of how the supports used to be done and I supplied them. I also showed how even the Reace's stuff could be improved. If an owner of an earlier 21 wasn't as overweight as I , the bed framing was fine.

The use of open cell foam for insulation in an area that gets condensation is asking for a nasty problem.

Has anyone yet had problems with the new way of construction? Since this a new change in the way the framing / insulation is being done, that's a question for someone who has one like the OP's pics.
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:47 PM   #14
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Since I am not an Escape owner, yet, I don't know any history of how the great Reese did things many years ago. All I hear is that he would do anything for his customers.

The reputation of the great Reese is what drew me to Escape Trailers. Since finding out about Escape, the great Reese has been replaced by a private equity group that has Karl running the show.

When I saw the strange new bed framing I asked ETI. They sent me photos of a unit that was currently in production. That unit was supposed to be complete from that section of the construction standpoint and I noticed that it did not have the additional framing front of the hot water heater that was shown on an older unit. That's why I started this thread.

Then I noticed the change in insulation from the older unit to the newer unit with the older unit using foil backed insulation and the newer unit using a black open cell foam with missing sections on the outside wall by the hatch.

As I mentioned, this forum is lively and has great interaction from all of its members.

The concern on the new, less structural, bed frame design and the new, non-foil backed, insulation does not have any history from the great Reese other than there is is a bed frame and insulation.

I have asked ETI for info on the non-foil backed insulation and have not heard back.

I appreciate comments from all members of this forum as some speak from the legend of the Private Owner Reese and some speak from the current realities of Equity Group Karl. One lives on the shoulders of the other.

Hopefully this thread help other potential customers.
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:52 PM   #15
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It's Reace.
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:19 PM   #16
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It's Reace.
Pretty sure who you know who he was referring to,,, yup, he got the spelling wrong..
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:33 PM   #17
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Pretty sure who you know who he was referring to,,, yup, he got the spelling wrong..
So, what else has he got wrong?
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:36 PM   #18
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So, what else has he got wrong?
I wonder how many times you've had your first name spelled Glen, but you knew people were talking to or about you....
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:37 PM   #19
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I wonder how many times you've had your first name spelled Glen, but you knew people were talking to or about you....
Does that make it right Donna?
If you can't get the name right, what about the rest?
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:59 PM   #20
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Does that make it right Donna?
If you can't get the name right, what about the rest?
No, but there are bigger issues. My last name doesn't start with D. and I grew up with it constantly misspelled and mispronounced. I got over it and find whatever the person is trying to say still has value. And now we have spell check, which isn't very gooood
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