Apple Airtag - Option for GPS tracking of the camper?

[Centex]

Likely an odd-man-out here, I use an iPhone but I'm *never "signed-in" to my iPhone/Apple Account. When I go to my "Settings" the very top line invites me to "Sign in to your iPhone", because I am not already signed-in.

Am I correct in understanding that if an iPhone is "On" but it is not signed-in to an Apple Account, not only does it not 'work' with Airtags, but it doesn't allow itself to contribute data about Airtags that may be within its range to the (anonymized / privatized / encrypted / etc / etc) 'network' that helps 'track' Airtags for users of that system?

IOW, that giant 'network' of iPhones supporting the Airtag ecosystem is actually the network of "Signed-In" iPhones (which I realize the vast majority of iPhones are at any given moment). Is that correct?

*never - Except for the rare and brief times when I want to download an app, when "sign-in" is necessary for that function. I use my iPhone for calls, text, email, web-browsing, and a number of apps, none which requires I be "signed-in" to my iPhone/Apple Account. My BT and Wi-Fi are always "On" so my iPhone works seamlessly in my car and with my home Wi-Fi network, but none of that requires I be "Signed-In" to my iPhone/Apple account. I do not use Siri.

[gjsheldon]

Originally Posted by Centex

Likely an odd-man-out here, I use an iPhone but I'm *never "signed-in" to my iPhone/Apple Account. When I go to my "Settings" the very top line invites me to "Sign in to your iPhone", because I am not already signed-in.

Am I correct in understanding that if an iPhone is "On" but it is not signed-in to an Apple Account, not only does it not 'work' with Airtags, but it doesn't allow itself to contribute data about Airtags that may be within its range to the (anonymized / privatized / encrypted / etc / etc) 'network' that helps 'track' Airtags for users of that system?

IOW, that giant 'network' of iPhones supporting the Airtag ecosystem is actually the network of "Signed-In" iPhones (which I realize the vast majority of iPhones are at any given moment). Is that correct?

*never - Except for the rare and brief times when I want to download an app, when "sign-in" is necessary for that function. I use my iPhone for calls, text, email, web-browsing, and a number of apps, none which requires I be "signed-in" to my iPhone/Apple Account. I do not use Siri.

That is correct. All of Apple's "Find My" systems rely on the iDevice being logged into an Apple ID account. As stated in the article the AirTag has to be registered to an Apple ID account and location tracking is also dependent on iDevices in it's vicinity being logged into their respective Apple ID accounts. If you "never" stay logged in to that account then it has no way to communicate (even anonymously encrypted) with Apple's servers.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by gjsheldon

That is correct. All of Apple's "Find My" systems rely on the iDevice being logged into an Apple ID account. As stated in the article the AirTag has to be registered to an Apple ID account and location tracking is also dependent on iDevices in it's vicinity being logged into their respective Apple ID accounts. If you "never" stay logged in to that account then it has no way to communicate (even anonymously encrypted) with Apple's servers.

Thanks, Gary, for that confirmation (with apology for missing that in the article).

Next question: When an iDevice is logged into an Apple ID Account ... and it then senses an Airtag in range and communicates that data in support of the Airtag ecosystem .... does that data transmission accrue against the iDevice owner's data limits account with their service-plan provider?

Or, is that Airtag ecosystem-related communication with Apple's servers somehow always rendered 'free'?

[gjsheldon]

Originally Posted by Centex

Thanks, Gary, for that confirmation.

Next question: When an iDevice is logged into and Apple ID Account ... and it then senses an AIrtag in range and communicates that data in support of the Airtag ecosystem .... does that data transmission accrue against the iDevice owner's data limits account with their service-plan provider?

Or, is that communication with Apple's servers somehow always rendered 'free'?

Good question. I would imagine it does (but that's just an educated guess) but I also imagine the data quantity is extremely negligible at best. All data encrypted on the iDevice before transmission. Probably nothing more than the unique ID of the iDevice and unique AirTag ID with location coordinate data. It is possible that it could accumulate proximity data and then wait to transmit until it is on WiFi but if you're not logged into your Apple ID then it likely wouldn't ever transmit anything. And I would seriously doubt that the iDevice would accumulate the data for later transmission (another educated guess) as it would be relatively meaningless data after an indeterminate amount of time had transpired. Don't take this as gospel but I've been working exclusively with Apple products since Apple II days (1981).

[Centex]

Thanks again, Gary, for your patient and informative response to my questions. It's much appreciated, have a great evening!

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by gjsheldon

That is correct. All of Apple's "Find My" systems rely on the iDevice being logged into an Apple ID account. As stated in the article the AirTag has to be registered to an Apple ID account and location tracking is also dependent on iDevices in it's vicinity being logged into their respective Apple ID accounts. If you "never" stay logged in to that account then it has no way to communicate (even anonymously encrypted) with Apple's servers.

I beg to differ with this evaluation. If your phone is turned on and communicating via WiFi or a cellular network, it can communicate with Apple’s servers. For example, you do not have to be logged into Google to communicate with their servers, even if you do not have a Google account. Send an email to your friend’s gmail address; where do you think it directly goes through? Face it; Big Brother has, for some time, is now, and will continue in the future to watch you, unless you throw away your smart phone and go hide out in some remote part of Alaska. And as technology continues to advance, at some point Big Brother will come up with a way to track you there. Are you going to stop driving? License plate readers can find and track you on the highways. Then there is facial recognition software. Do you cross any international borders? The border guard gets a wealth of information from scanning your passport. As I’ve already posted, Apple can do what it damn well pleases by altering its operating software. Apple, if it so desires, can make your phone send data to their servers if it is connected to the internet without your knowledge (remember checking the box that you agree to their terms last time you updated iOS). So can Android programmers. If you want to use the advancements of technology like a smart phone, you have to hope that the people in charge of the technology will do nothing to compromise you. Apple has a history of doing just that. Yea, we may not like it, but if my phone, without my knowledge, helps someone find a treasured heirloom (or even an everyday item) or apprehend some scumbag thief, perhaps that is a good thing.

[Mike Lewis]

Upon further reading it appears that the AirTag will alert a nearby iPhone of its presence if it has been in close contact with that iPhone for a period of time. This is to prevent stalking, but it makes the AirTag useless for tracking stolen stuff. Apparently AirTag is meant for items people misplace. I don't (yet) lose track of my keys, wallet, etc., so I don't need it for that. So never mind.

[cpaharley2008]

"where did we park the Escape?"...........

[Centex]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I beg to differ with this evaluation. ....

Just FYI / FWIW, my previous questions have nothing to do with 'big brotherism', etc.

I'm fully aware that I'm well-tracked, observed, etc, etc, etc, suffer no delusions about that, nor do I have a particular concern about that, nor do I make any attempt to avoid that (No Worries! ).

I'm just curious about how the Airtag ecosystem works in a general sense, nothing more

I do happen to have a very limited cell-data plan, so the extent to which Airtag (or anything else 'going on in the background') accrues cell-data use against my plan is of some interest. It has nothing to do with (fruitless) attempts to 'fly under anyone's radar' in any respect, that's not an interest or concern for me at all.

[Bobbie54]

Find My will find a phone if it is turned on (though not perfectly- I lost my iphone in the water a couple of years ago and Find my gave its location as where it had been a day before. It had been turned on since. I get it wasn't transmitting well from under a foot of seawater but it didn't give last dry location, either. (Worked fine, though- really is water resistant!)

To find a phone it has to either be yours or your friend must agree to be found with the app.

Bluetooth is a bit different. There are dog tracking devices that work similarly but the owner has to have an app. Here, any phone will do. There may be a way to turn off tracking of other people's devices, but most people won't do that. And you can't use your phone without agreeing to several pages of stuff from Apple. It will be interesting to see how well it works.

I don't know of anyone who has been notified by the covid tracker that they were near someone who had reported a positive test but there you have to be near their phone, both phones turned on, for 15 minutes. That would only be a friend who would have told me anyway!

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

"where did we park the Escape?"...........

That isn't funny! The major reason i went from a tent to a trailer was to get a bathroom. My wife & I got lost on a 3:00AM bathroom run in a huge campground. Took us 45 unites to find the tent.

Of course, the AirTag would have probably worked with a tent...

[Raypat]

Having something that would track your rig so easily would be a miracle. Miracles usually cost more that $30. This device will help but only in a limited way.

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Upon further reading it appears that the AirTag will alert a nearby iPhone of its presence if it has been in close contact with that iPhone for a period of time. This is to prevent stalking, but it makes the AirTag useless for tracking stolen stuff. Apparently AirTag is meant for items people misplace. I don't (yet) lose track of my keys, wallet, etc., so I don't need it for that. So never mind.

Yep, the stalking feature makes it useless for theft prevention. Came here to point that out, but you already did.

[Red]

This is not a new find it system. The "Tile" system has been around for several years and is great for those forgetful people who frequently misplace items. We use Tiles on keys, wallets and physical support aids. The system works great and has helped reduce the frustration of where did I put that. I never thought about putting one in my trailer but I should work.

[gjsheldon]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

Yep, the stalking feature makes it useless for theft prevention. Came here to point that out, but you already did.

Tile is the product you want to use for "theft tracking". The Tile tracker is dependent on being in the range of someone else using the Tile app for their own trackers but these are quite prevalent now so the odds are more in your favor that someone in the vicinity has picked up it's Bluetooth signal. There is no notification that occurs to anyone else (unlike Apple's AirTag) and each tracker will record it's last known position based on being in the vicinity of another Tile user. With this in mind, the more users there are of the Tile trackers the greater the odds of yours being detected so it can record a location. I've been using Tile for several years and they are a very "privacy focused" company that has a good reputation for security in the tracking space. They have a number of different styles of trackers so it's easy to find one that can be discretely "hidden". Their Bluetooth range is reasonable. Just another cheaper suggestion than going down the GPS route.

https://www.thetileapp.com/en-us/how-it-works

[rick]

Technically, AirTags aren't Bluetooth, but ultrawideband, the next-gen tech (good or bad). The NYT had a good review of AirTags today, which answered some questions I had had.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/t...view-tile.html

Rick

[gjsheldon]

Originally Posted by rick

Technically, AirTags aren't Bluetooth, but ultrawideband, the next-gen tech (good or bad). The NYT had a good review of AirTags today, which answered some questions I had had.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/t...view-tile.html

Rick

Good article. Thanks for the link.

AirTags–Tile; Apples–Oranges (pun intended)!

Both are fruit and provide nourishment, but that is where the similarities begin and end. AirTags and Tile are similar products and there is certainly crossover uses. Definitely the "tech" built into AirTags is newer and more suited to the way AirTags are designed to be used, but I believe they each still have uses that are uniquely suited to one or the other (like theft tracking). I have 4 AirTags on order so I plan to test them in the future for their strengths and weaknesses. I like both and I definitely like the competition for driving innovation forward.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rick

Technically, AirTags aren't Bluetooth, but ultrawideband, the next-gen tech (good or bad).

That would make them typically useless, as Apple only introduced ultrawideband support in iPhone less than two years ago - most iPhones don't support it. Even if the AirTag owner has ultrawideband, the phones around the lost object probably won't have it. In fact, AirTags support both Bluetooth and ultrawideband.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That would make them typically useless, as Apple only introduced ultrawideband support in iPhone less than two years ago - most iPhones don't support it. Even if the AirTag owner has ultrawideband, the phones around the lost object probably won't have it. In fact, AirTags support both Bluetooth and ultrawideband.

Agreed. My understanding is that they will work on Bluetooth and UWB, but as Brian says, UWB is not yet in wide scale use. But UWB will be an improvement over Bluetooth if you misplace your tagged car key somewhere in your house, assuming you have a new enough phone that supports UWB.

[kavm]

I was reminded of this old thread when reading the story of how airtag helped a woman catch the movers lying about her delivery...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...ch-movers-lie/

We park our camper in a commercial storage location but bring it home and park it on the street for a night or two before and after camping trips. While we apply a lock, camper theft is not unheard off in our area. I have heard of at least one local case where a commercial camper was stolen after having the lock broken.

So, in that context - I am wondering if airtag would be a good idea to track the location of the camper in the event of a theft. Any thoughts?