Apple Airtag - Option for GPS tracking of the camper?

[kavm]

This topic has been of some interest in discussions. Apple is releasing Airtag that could fit this objective. Being that it is yet to be released one cannot be certain but sounds like one could hide it somewhere on the camper and find it using Find my network device app. It does have some feature that could give it away (warn the thief that an unknown airtag is riding with him/her). That's one negative I found...

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/...oduces-airtag/

[Brian B-P]

The Find My system depends on an Apple device being within Bluetooth range of the tag and participating in the Find My system. The probability of that happening while the trailer is on the road or stashed on someone's property (or abandoned in some remote area) seems small.

[kavm]

The article/news release does discuss locating the airbag beyond the bluetooth range. Either it was vague enough or I was not sharp enough to get precisely how. It says that “When AirTag is separated from the owner and outside the Bluetooth range, the Find My Network can track it down. ... The Find My network is approaching a billion Apple devices and it can track a lost AirTag...

[Mike Lewis]

The article implied that an AirTag could be detected if in Bluetooth range of any Apple device, but the owner of that device would not know about the presence of the AirTag if that person didn't own the item the AirTag was attached to.


I think this is a winner. It's a shame those $$$ Battleborn batteries don't have a place to hide one of these. But my trailer does.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

The article implied that an AirTag could be detected if in Bluetooth range of any Apple device, but the owner of that device would not know about the presence of the AirTag if that person didn't own the item the AirTag was attached to.

That may be true, BUT, and this is a big but. If the AirTag owner does not realize his tagged property has been stolen, and isn’t constantly checking his/her “Find My” app, the property to which the AirTag is attached may be out in the middle of nowhere before the owner realizes it has been “relocated,” or far away from its last Bluetooth detection on anyone’s iPhone, and the AirTag’s battery will likely deplete rapidly. Once it’s dead, it’s dead. Furthermore, when Bluetooth is turned on, it draws added power from the iPhone’s battery, and those who want to extend battery power for as long as possible likely turn off Bluetooth when not needed. Others never or rarely use Bluetooth. In a dense population (a city) the AirTag may work well, but in the boonies it’s use as a tracking device would likely be marginal, if at all. On the other hand, it is likely to excel around one’s home to locate misplaced keys, etc.

[Losangeles]

They rely on bluetooth... not GPS

info here.

https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/dis...Vpml761aluEWKA

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

TIt says that “When AirTag is separated from the owner and outside the Bluetooth range, the Find My Network can track it down. ... The Find My network is approaching a billion Apple devices and it can track a lost AirTag...

What that means is that when it is outside the range of your iPhone's Bluetooth, it will still be found if it is within the range of someone else's Bluetooth... if their phone is running the Find My app.

[Doug2000]

A secure storage location and good insurance is your only bet. Lots of trucks go missing around here, very few ever get found.

[kavm]

One of the sites is reporting (I cannot confirm if correct) that a lost AirTag can be read by any NFC capable Apple or Android device - to give it the best chance to be found.

FYI - I am personally not even sure I will buy it for this purpose. We will obviously insure our Escape, use the Ft Knox lock (heavy!) and store it in a RV storage facility. Unfortunately, the facility is only monitored electronically and does not have an in-person security, but one can’t have everything. So, that’s the plan A.

[C&G in FL]

I may be wrong, but it is my current understanding, subject to change of course, is that the AirTag will be “spotted” by any passing phone with Bluetooth activated and, without the phone owner being aware, and relay the AirTags location to the network. I suspect they will not have to have the “Find My” app running, as the AirTag will only be viewable by its owner. Apple is innovative, and I suspect the AirTag network is an offshoot of the COVID contact technology that smartphone manufacturers developed. If that is the case, the “members” of the location data network will have to have Bluetooth enabled, and the AirTags owner will have to constantly check “Find My” to see if the tagged item is still where it was at last check. I do not think Apple developed the AirTag to prevent theft of trailers and they would likely discourage its use for that purpose. I believe their intent was to help people find commonly misplaced items.

On edit: I still would say that anyone who wants an additional layer of electronic security should purchase a GPS tracker such as the unit sold and monitored by “Find It Now,” accept the annual fee as additional insurance cost, and rest easier, knowing that the minute their trailer moves, they will get a text or an email (their choice). Then they can notify the police and take satisfaction when the thief is arrested and their trailer is recovered. I keep hearing that the monitoring fee is too expensive. Mine is $80 a year, or a single fuel fill-up for my F-150 with its 35 gallon tank. But how much is it worth to keep your trailer more secure, knowing the amount of time it will take to replace it and the time, expense, and effort to redo all the mods you have completed.

[kavm]

Thanks for mentioning the FIN. How difficult is it to install Find It Now? Is it DIY?

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

A secure storage location and good insurance is your only bet... .

Incorrect.

Ravelco works extremely well. For lots of reasons. Super popular on both commercial vehicles and also many "supercars" use Ravelco.

https://www.ravelco.com/

Recommended. We have it on our 2020 SuperDuty + truck camper combo.

The best vehicle is one that can't be started! We have the Ravelco stickers on the windows... and any most potential criminals would walk on by. If they didnt know what Ravelco was they would at least not be able to drive it away!

Unless they had a flatbed and could drag our rig onto it (very unlikely) then we dont lose our rig.

more info https://www.ravelco.com/superduty.html

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I may be wrong, but it is my current understanding, subject to change of course, is that the AirTag will be “spotted” by any passing phone with Bluetooth activated and, without the phone owner being aware, and relay the AirTags location to the network.

If it has the required software running. The tag can't communicate with Apple just by virtue of being in a device's Bluetooth range, even if the device accepts a connection (acceptance which it won't happen without either user interaction or an app automating the interaction).

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I suspect they will not have to have the “Find My” app running, as the AirTag will only be viewable by its owner.

Something needs to be running, whether it is the Find My app or an iOS service. The nearby user would need to be running the app to see the tag, if they're allowed to see it.

As a user, I would not willingly participate in any system that reports data without my permission, especially my location. As a result, I wouldn't be a member of the Find My network unless there were a notification to me, requiring my approval, each time a tag was found... and who would want do deal with that?

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Apple is innovative, and I suspect the AirTag network is an offshoot of the COVID contact technology that smartphone manufacturers developed.

Find My predates the current pandemic and the associated contact tracing systems. Apple innovated nothing in this case; the system is a copy of the Tile system from 2012.

Tile is still available, and no doubt there are others. The viability of any of these systems for finding tagged objects outside of the immediate vicinity of the user is dependent on many others buying the same system, allowing it to run on their devices, and forming a large network. The only good thing about the Apple product (for the purpose of finding something not in the user's immediate vicinity) is that Apple iOS users are the largest single-brand group of mobile users, and they tend to like products endorsed by Apple.

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I do not think Apple developed the AirTag to prevent theft of trailers and they would likely discourage its use for that purpose. I believe their intent was to help people find commonly misplaced items.

I agree... at least that this was not the system's purpose.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

As a user, I would not willingly participate in any system that reports data without my permission, especially my location.

The impression I got was that the Find My system doesn't report the identity (therefore location) of the Apple device that detects the AirTag to Apple. It reports the location of the AirTag to its owner, without identifying the Apple device that "found" it.



From apple.com:


"Only you can see where your AirTag is. Your location data and history are never stored on the AirTag itself. Devices that relay the location of your AirTag also stay anonymous, and that location data is encrypted every step of the way. So not even Apple knows the location of your AirTag or the identity of the device that helps find it."

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

If it has the required software running. The tag can't communicate with Apple just by virtue of being in a device's Bluetooth range, even if the device accepts a connection (acceptance which it won't happen without either user interaction or an app automating the interaction).


Something needs to be running, whether it is the Find My app or an iOS service. The nearby user would need to be running the app to see the tag, if they're allowed to see it.

Brian, I fully understand your thoughts. However, what I see as a fallacy in your statement is that people typically keep their iPhones on all the time. Therefore, iOS itself is running, and Apple constantly produces/releases updated versions. And making any iPhone recognize a tag be done by altering the operating system which, with a software tweak, Apple could make any phone subjected to a tag momentarily turn on Bluetooth without the owner’s knowledge and pass the information along to the network, and ultimately the tag’s owner. I do not ascribe to the wacky (my opinion) theories of Qanon, but “I”anon is a whole different story. Apple does what Apple wants to do, and if they can make money by making every iPhone owner’s phone recognize AirTags, I am pretty sure they will do it. In the final analysis, Apple looks after its own interests, not yours or mine. At least not until there is a class action lawsuit, and it is likely that Apple has considered all the ramifications, and will be able to prove that “being a part of the AirKey network” will cause no harm or violate anyone’s right to privacy. So a lawsuit is not likely to go anywhere. After all, every Apple user has to agree to Apple’s terms to use their software.

But there is still inadequate information available at this time. In reality, we are dealing in speculation. Once these tags are actually in use by the masses, we will know for sure how they operate. And we do agree that they are likely not intended to prevent trailer theft!

[JStelly]

I just read the article and despite its limitations, I’m going to seriously consider it for my new ebike. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

The impression I got was that the Find My system doesn't report the identity (therefore location) of the Apple device that detects the AirTag to Apple. It reports the location of the AirTag to its owner, without identifying the Apple device that "found" it.

From apple.com:
"Only you can see where your AirTag is. Your location data and history are never stored on the AirTag itself. Devices that relay the location of your AirTag also stay anonymous, and that location data is encrypted every step of the way. So not even Apple knows the location of your AirTag or the identity of the device that helps find it."

A perfectly good solution, assuming it actually works that way, with no security flaws or other bugs.

Also, as online comments have noted, the owner of the AirTag does get the location of the tag, so it's a workable tracking device. Not a big issue, but still not for me, thanks.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

... iOS itself is running, and Apple constantly produces/releases updated versions. And making any iPhone recognize a tag be done by altering the operating system which, with a software tweak, Apple could make any phone subjected to a tag momentarily turn on Bluetooth without the owner’s knowledge and pass the information along to the network, and ultimately the tag’s owner.
...
Apple does what Apple wants to do, and if they can make money by making every iPhone owner’s phone recognize AirTags, I am pretty sure they will do it.

I don't doubt that Apple has forced this feature on iPhones in general; I was just saying that it does use running software on the phone, and we seem to agree on that.

Except that the presence of a tag can't be used to turn Bluetooth on, because the presence isn't known unless Bluetooth is already on. I suspect that most iPhone users do have Bluetooth on all the time, so it will work in their car, with their wireless earbuds, etc.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I don't doubt that Apple has forced this feature on iPhones in general; I was just saying that it does use running software on the phone, and we seem to agree on that.

Except that the presence of a tag can't be used to turn Bluetooth on, because the presence isn't known unless Bluetooth is already on. I suspect that most iPhone users do have Bluetooth on all the time, so it will work in their car, with their wireless earbuds, etc.

I agree in principle Brian, but I definitely wouldn’t put it past Apple to “upgrade” iOS to switch Bluetooth on momentarily every few seconds to sample if any AirTags are nearby. And yes, I am one of the most. I typically leave Bluetooth on, because if I am working in the garage, I stream music on a Bluetooth speaker. If I jump in one of the vehicles, my phone automatically connects and I can answer phone calls “hands free.”
The status of Bluetooth in iOS is controlled in settings. Another option Apple has is to make Bluetooth Active the default, and remove the on/off switch in the settings app. Then everybody, willingly or unwillingly, will be a part of Apples tag tracking network. Remember the old joke about MicroSoft Windows: Bill Gates knows what you want.......
You don’t get a choice. But maybe I am suffering from an over abundance of cynicism; I’ve just seen too much corporate BS where they ram stuff down the throats of customers.

[gjsheldon]

Here is the link to a Fast Company article that may answer some of your question and concerns about how Apple is working with their new AirTags and the "Find My" app. Hope it's helpful as there seems to be lots of speculation on this topic.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90628073...ivacy-security