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Old 10-04-2022, 01:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by DT6 View Post
FAILURE!

I continued my test. I ran the MaxxFan last night along with some lights and according to the Victron I used up about 30+Ah last night. I was able to run a 750W toaster this morning.

BUT - I just went back outside (very cloudy today) about 3 hours after toasting my morning bagel and - it no longer works. When I start the toaster, the lights flicker and the inverter shuts off. I also made Two other measurements/observations folks have been asking for:

1. I could not find an analog multimeter so I rigged my phone to take a movie of my digital one while starting the toaster. As I scroll through the movie, I can see the initial voltage at 13.39V. Then as I start the toaster the lights flicker and voltage drops to 11.36V, then quickly recovers to 13.4V. I did this a few times and the voltage drop on the next one was to 12.11V, and the third one dropped to 11.01V.
2. On two of the three occasions, the Inverter started beeping but only for a very short time. The second time it beeped, I got a look at the lights before it stopped beeping and the light next to the big "Triangle!" was blinking red. Again, this blinking/beeping stopped after only a second or two.

I've done everything the battery manufacturer said to do.

Thoughts/Suggestions?? Thanks.

I
If the voltage at the batteries is not dropping the same as that at the inverter, you have an undersized wiring or poor connection problem. You should not see that much of a voltage drop, and it appears that the inverter is shutting down due to low voltage.

If the voltage drop at the batteries is the same as that at the inverter, I'd suspect a battery problem.
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Old 10-04-2022, 02:12 PM   #22
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I did not see a way to place the multimeter leads right on the inverter as the Pos and Neg appear to be both large plugs that go into some type of socket. I was able to follow that back about 7 or 8 inches to the bus bar where they attach.

To get a battery reading, since they are connected in parallel, I assume I just need to place the multimeter leads on one of the Pos/Neg terminals of one of the batteries? Assuming that is okay, I just did that three consecutive times. The lights flickered all three times and the inverter shut off all three times. The Inverter beeped/red light same as previously on one of the three tries just now. Here are the lowest voltages with the leads connected directly to the batteries.
1. 13.00V; 2. 11.00V; 3. 12.05V

As we are leaving town next week and my 30-day return window ends the day before we get back (or maybe the day we get back), if they need to be returned then I guess I should initiate an RMA?
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Old 10-04-2022, 03:35 PM   #23
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I did not see a way to place the multimeter leads right on the inverter as the Pos and Neg appear to be both large plugs that go into some type of socket. I was able to follow that back about 7 or 8 inches to the bus bar where they attach.

To get a battery reading, since they are connected in parallel, I assume I just need to place the multimeter leads on one of the Pos/Neg terminals of one of the batteries? Assuming that is okay, I just did that three consecutive times. The lights flickered all three times and the inverter shut off all three times. The Inverter beeped/red light same as previously on one of the three tries just now. Here are the lowest voltages with the leads connected directly to the batteries.
1. 13.00V; 2. 11.00V; 3. 12.05V

As we are leaving town next week and my 30-day return window ends the day before we get back (or maybe the day we get back), if they need to be returned then I guess I should initiate an RMA?
That is close enough to the inverter to provide good information assuming the wiring is not grossly undersized. Your battery measurement technique is correct across one distinct set of battery terminals because you are in parallel. Your numbers seem to point to an issue with the batteries especially since you are able to run the inverter without issue from the lead-acid. With a 750W load you aren't approaching the published rating limits of the battery BMS or inverter. Your voltages should not be sagging that low. For context I have pulled as high as 200A momentarily and 100A+ for over 20 minutes from my Bestgo 400AH lithium battery and it doesn't flinch. I would return them.
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Old 10-04-2022, 07:11 PM   #24
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I would second that recommendation. A set of parallel lithium batteries with a stated 5 second max current of 250 (+/-) amps per battery, should hardly drop much below 12.8 on the surge (toaster startup). You are hardly taking more than 20% of the rated power. Something is fishy with the batteries, but very odd that both should fail at the same time.
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Old 10-04-2022, 07:52 PM   #25
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I would second that recommendation. A set of parallel lithium batteries with a stated 5 second max current of 250 (+/-) amps per battery, should hardly drop much below 12.8 on the surge (toaster startup). You are hardly taking more than 20% of the rated power. Something is fishy with the batteries, but very odd that both should fail at the same time.
I have requested an RMA to return them. Each one has a max 100Ah output rating so in parallel I believe that is 200Ah output. This just seems strange that they fail to power the converter. I did speak with someone at GoPower and they said it is either the wiring or the batteries. I don’t have the expertise to change the wiring so I’ll have to try the batteries first. Thanks!
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Old 10-04-2022, 09:08 PM   #26
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I could not find an analog multimeter so I rigged my phone to take a movie of my digital one while starting the toaster. As I scroll through the movie, I can see the initial voltage at 13.39V. Then as I start the toaster the lights flicker and voltage drops to 11.36V, then quickly recovers to 13.4V. I did this a few times and the voltage drop on the next one was to 12.11V, and the third one dropped to 11.01V.
I found my numbers when I tested my mini-split A/C on the inverter and 400AH Bestgo lithium battery. The battery start was at 95% SOC and 13.3V. When using 1120W and pulling 104A DC (highest reading) the built-in battery meter read 12.86V, inverter read 12.5V and Victron BMV read 12.68V. There was then some voltage rebound with reduced load as unit got the trailer closer to temperature set point. At 4.5 hours into test and catching the compressor off the battery voltage was 13.1V and read 13.0 at inverter. Even after 5 hours of varying load (inverter A/C compressor modulating) and battery down around 30% SOC the battery voltage was still 12.77V (12.5V at inverter) with an 860W load. My only point is for some context and to show your stated voltages are way lower than they should be with brand new lithium batteries and running a 750W toaster for only a few minutes.

Granted I built my own system and there are different components but voltages should be similar.
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Old 10-04-2022, 11:04 PM   #27
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Thank you. This is great information and certainly cements the decision to return the batteries. I hope I'm able to help others as much as you all have helped me with this issue. It is very much appreciated!
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Old 10-05-2022, 08:40 AM   #28
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I also would look closely at the gauge of wires feeding the inverter. Escape has a tendency to undersized wiring. I would expect it should be at least 2/0 .
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Old 10-05-2022, 10:23 AM   #29
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You've got some good advice in the discussion.

My $0.02 - your swap to the LA battery points pretty conclusively to a battery problem with your Li battery or batteries. If the entire circuit works when you change the power source, it's the power source that's the issue.

Li batteries have a complex battery management system (BMS) to control charging, cell balancing and safety. My guess is you have a faulty BMS or individual cell failures in your Li batteries, both nearly impossible to fault-find on your own.

Testing each Li alone could narrow it down to one battery, as either alone should be able to power your toaster (I've run an 800 watt heater off one Li battery during load testing)
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Old 10-05-2022, 10:32 AM   #30
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Batteries are suspect if you are able to run the toaster using lead acid batteries but it doesn't seem likely both batteries are bad. That makes me suspicious of the wire gauge and/or connections. A loose connection or a poor connection can cause a large voltage drop.

Can you find someone with marine electrical knowledge to look at your system? Hopefully a friend but if not then someone from one of the marine electrical shops.
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:05 PM   #31
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Thank you. This is great information and certainly cements the decision to return the batteries. I hope I'm able to help others as much as you all have helped me with this issue. It is very much appreciated!
FYI I found a YouTube channel called,, RVelectricity a good backup plan
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Old 11-06-2022, 12:04 PM   #32
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To wrap this up, I wanted to post what the solution seems to be. I returned the two batteries to Ampertime. I have to give them credit, they tried to help and when it was apparent they were not working, they paid for return postage and refunded our purchase price.

I then tried the new SOK batteries recommended by John (Santa Cruz). I was able to get their new RV model that has a built-in heater. When I emailed SOK asking for a recommendation, they also asked how the trailer was outfitted. They then sent me all of the settings for the Victron Charge Controller, which I entered into the system after connecting the two 100Ah batteries in parallel.

These seem to work great and I can run the inverter and run my toaster, and a hair dryer (not at the same time) without the inverter shutting off. So I'm very happy with the SOK's thus far. They cost just a bit more than a Chen's or Ampertime, but I like the build quality and the fact that the case is accessible. That is nice if in the unlikely event that your battery BMS goes bad, you can easily replace it.

So, unless something goes wrong with the batteries on our upcoming trip next week (I will report if something does), I highly recommend either one or two 100Ah SOK Lithiums for the average Escape. You can of course connect a few more if you have the means to charge them.
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Old 11-06-2022, 06:08 PM   #33
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To wrap this up, I wanted to post what the solution seems to be. I returned the two batteries to Ampertime. I have to give them credit, they tried to help and when it was apparent they were not working, they paid for return postage and refunded our purchase price.

I then tried the new SOK batteries recommended by John (Santa Cruz). I was able to get their new RV model that has a built-in heater. When I emailed SOK asking for a recommendation, they also asked how the trailer was outfitted. They then sent me all of the settings for the Victron Charge Controller, which I entered into the system after connecting the two 100Ah batteries in parallel.

These seem to work great and I can run the inverter and run my toaster, and a hair dryer (not at the same time) without the inverter shutting off. So I'm very happy with the SOK's thus far. They cost just a bit more than a Chen's or Ampertime, but I like the build quality and the fact that the case is accessible. That is nice if in the unlikely event that your battery BMS goes bad, you can easily replace it.

So, unless something goes wrong with the batteries on our upcoming trip next week (I will report if something does), I highly recommend either one or two 100Ah SOK Lithiums for the average Escape. You can of course connect a few more if you have the means to charge them.
Nice work. Good decision to return those batteries. Glad you got it figured out and everything is now working properly. You’ll be happy with the SOK’s. Very similar construction to the Bestgo lithiums that some of us use.
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Old 11-06-2022, 06:34 PM   #34
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That's a super outcome, and glad the toast process is working!

Good illustration as to why systemic elimination of possible faults is so important, to narrow down to the real causes of problems. Can spend a lot of time and $ with a guess and replace approach.
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Old 11-07-2022, 05:24 PM   #35
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I sent you an unrelated (sort of) PM
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Old 11-07-2022, 11:21 PM   #36
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I’ve gone with the SOK battery for my upcoming new trailer. I opted for the non heated as the continuous output is higher than the heated. I bought a single 200 amp hour with the plans to add another and an inverter in the spring. You having two 100’s actually allows for more continuous output than a single 200amp. Good choice these are quality batteries at a decent price.
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Old 03-28-2023, 03:50 PM   #37
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I also would look closely at the gauge of wires feeding the inverter. Escape has a tendency to undersized wiring. I would expect it should be at least 2/0 .
Yes, they do. On my new 21NE, I found that they used what looks like about 10ga wire for my main positive supply line..... with an 80amp fuse.
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Old 03-29-2023, 06:39 PM   #38
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Just an update on this one. We just spent 5 weeks in the trailer on a trip from OR to AZ, CA, and NV and the batteries worked flawlessly. I have no idea why I had the power issue previously so all I can think of is it must have been "pilot error". Maybe I tried to run two things at once and don't remember, or I did something equally dumb somewhere else that caused it.

But now it seems to be fine and we are really happy with the SOK's performance. Now we have about 210 Ah and can get away with using 180 to 190 Ah if we need to before recharging. Currently with two CPAPs, the furnace, fans, computers and lights we are using about 35% to 40% capacity at night without being careful.
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