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Old 06-05-2016, 08:47 AM   #1
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Different Tire Width on Escape 21

Here is the problem and suggested solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

One odd thing I discovered is the wheels are set apart different on each side. Once the wedges are adjusted properly I have to make sure to use the correct wedge on the proper side. Not the fault of the wedge but how the axles are aligned. Not noticing anything unusual on tire wear, and not sure how they are supposed to be aligned.


Quote:
That would worry me a bit. Although I'm wondering if the geometry changes depending on the load on each wheel. If the area is uneven that might cause the difference. Otherwise I think that I'd be under there with a tape measure, measuring the distance between the axles on each side.
Ron


Quote:
It's hard to imagine how a trailer with the axles installed so far out of parallel that it would be noticeable in tire spacing when using this sort of brake (or "chock") could pull down the road straight and without excessive tire wear.

The Torflex suspension has quite short arms, so vertical travel causes significant fore-aft movement as well. The leading and trailing suspensions should match, so that the spacing between tires stays constant, but an uneven site could make the two sides mismatch... but from Paul's description this seems to be consistent - one side always tighter than the other. Offhand the only two explanations I can think of for this would be a twisted frame (same effect as an uneven site but again, would need to be significantly twisted) or mismatched tire diameters.
Brian B-P
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:53 AM   #2
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Paul have you measured this while sitting as level as on a hard surface like concrete or asphalt?
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:54 AM   #3
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I just came out of storage and the first thing I did was measure the distance between axles. Very close numbers on each side, my measurements were not precise but enough to tell me the axles were spaced properly.

Moved on to checking the tire sizes on these, the original supplied tires from Escape. There is a difference.

The driver side has ST225/75R15 and the curb side is ST205/85R15. Brian had it correct, the tire widths are different. The sizes are matched on each side.

Checked again and no sign of unusual tire wear, we have 8,000 miles on the trailer and original tires.

Is this any cause for concern?
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:58 AM   #4
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Wow - that must have been a mistake at the factory to put on mismatched tires. Probably they were sent from the supplier incorrectly and not noticed during the build. At least they are the same on the pairs. The 205 would have slightly less weight capacity that the 225 I think, but either should be plenty on a 21.

I would contact Reace though - he should at least know about this.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:14 AM   #5
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21 for Florida

I would definitely get a hold of the factory .Check your spare and see what that size is and swap it out and then get same size as the others and keep the mismatch for a spare or ask ETI what to do with it ? Jim
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:18 AM   #6
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different tires?

I had to go check even though I'm sure I would have noticed if I had two different sizes. They are all four 205's.
When I put in the x-chocks I usually have to close up at least one from the setting when removed, I guess it has to do with the suspension at different positions or the fact that the trailer was twisted into the spot. Many miles on the Marathons and no wear shows, must be Ok.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:38 AM   #7
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So the 225's are a mistake?
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:38 AM   #8
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I checked the spare and it is a 205 width. Does 3 out of 5 being 205 width mean that was what was standard?
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Old 06-05-2016, 12:38 PM   #9
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Paul, that's a pretty strange discovery.
The only thing that would concern me and I'm not sure it even should is whether or not the roll out on the two different width tires is the same. Should be Very close. Roll out used to be critical side to side when we raced stock cars with locked rear ends but on free spinning axles I'm not sure it matters. I would contact Reace for sure. I would also check the clearance in the wheel well especially if the 205's were the intended tire. If you pancake the trailer on a humpy bridge approach by accident you wouldn't want tire bulge to bite the inner or outer fiberglass.
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fudge_brownie View Post
I checked the spare and it is a 205 width. Does 3 out of 5 being 205 width mean that was what was standard?
Neither one is the published Escape standard of ST205/75R15. There were smaller sizes earlier (on smaller models), and at one point the 5.0 had larger tires (ST215/75R15) because it had the highest axle load, but I've never heard of a 225 mm width (the ST225/75R15) or 85 aspect ratio (ST205/85R15) used on an Escape. Of course, I'm only going on published specs, sizes mentioned in forum discussions, and the ones I've seen.

ST225/75R15 is a readily available size, just not normally used by Escape.
ST205/85R15 is an unusual size. The only ST tires commonly found in 85 aspect ratio are for 16" wheels. I don't know where I would even find a 205/85R15, ST or otherwise. Carlisle (Escape's current tire supplier) doesn't even list this size in their catalog.

Tire size isn't discussed very often in this forum, compared to other forums, because the stock Escape size works fine and is readily available; most people don't find a reason to consider other sizes.

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Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
The only thing that would concern me and I'm not sure it even should is whether or not the roll out on the two different width tires is the same. Should be Very close. Roll out used to be critical side to side when we raced stock cars with locked rear ends but on free spinning axles I'm not sure it matters.
"Roll out" is effective tire circumference, measured by how far the tire rolls (while carrying load) per rotation of the tire. It depends significantly on load and inflation pressure. Major tire manufacturers publish loaded radius and tire revolutions per kilometre (or mile) for this purpose, but for Special Trailer tires there usually are only more basic specifications provided.

With idler (free spinning, no drive shaft) wheels this doesn't matter, but it would still be a concern if the diameter were significantly different, as the trailer wouldn't even sit level. These two sizes are very close to identical - the 205/85R15 are nominally 5 mm larger in diameter, but tread depth differences could easily be larger than that. The slight difference probably makes much more different to the fit of the chocks than to the behaviour of the trailer.

I would be more concerned about significantly different width, causing a different amount of drag and different response to lateral loads. It could easily cause a greater tendency to sway.


At least they're all radials. I rented a U-Haul trailer once and found that it had three bias-ply tires and one radial.
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
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The 205 would have slightly less weight capacity that the 225 I think, but either should be plenty on a 21.
Yes, I agree. The ST205/85R15 would have more capacity than the stock ST205/85R15 because it has taller sidewalls; the ST225/75R15 would have substantially more capacity than stock because it is both wider (by 20 mm) and taller in the sidewall (by 15 mm because that's 75% of 20 mm), assuming the same inflation pressure.

Capacity is not an issue. These tires are larger in diameter than stock, but should still fit in the Escape wheel wells fine, which is why they were not noticed before. One pair are wider than stock, but with no outer fender lip on an Escape and less than 10 mm more width toward the inboard side, I'm not surprised that there's no fit problem.
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:40 PM   #12
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Has ETI ever even used any other ST tires sizes other than 205/75R/15 (and 205/75R/14 before the change to all wheels being 15") in recent years? This sure seems like purely a mistake by ETI's tire supplier and I bet Reace will want to rectify it. Since all the wheels and tires at ETI are the same size now, I doubt if the guys at ETI would ever have even noticed this.
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:49 PM   #13
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My mistake, it is a typo on my part. Both tires are R75, however one pair are ST225 and the other pair are ST205, as is the spare.
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Old 06-05-2016, 03:05 PM   #14
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Paul - that makes it even an easier mistake by someone at ETI's tire supplier to make. But it also means that there is more difference in circumference of the two sides and it's something I would want to remedy.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer View Post
Has ETI ever even used any other ST tires sizes other than 205/75R/15 (and 205/75R/14 before the change to all wheels being 15") in recent years? This sure seems like purely a mistake by ETI's tire supplier and I bet Reace will want to rectify it. Since all the wheels and tires at ETI are the same size now, I doubt if the guys at ETI would ever have even noticed this.
The ST225 x 15" are used on the 5.0 Classic which hasn't been made for the last two years.

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Old 06-05-2016, 06:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
The ST225 x 15" are used on the 5.0 Classic which hasn't been made for the last two years.

Barry
Hmmmmm
Check the date code on the two different tire sizes.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:53 PM   #17
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Different Tire Width on Escape 21

All 4 tires should have matched. I'll echo what others have suggested - call Escape.

Just out of curiosity I checked mine. All 4 are ST205/75 R15.


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Old 06-05-2016, 07:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
The ST225 x 15" are used on the 5.0 Classic which hasn't been made for the last two years.

Barry
The people that are assembling these trailers are obviously going for speed not quality. And no one is 'consistently' doing quality control monitoring.

Our 19' is listed as a 21' on the Manufacturers Label in the closet. ETI told me to just cross out the 21' and write in 19'. So the person 'installing' the label didn't even notice .... the size of the trailer. So it's no surprise the tire size isn't noticed either.
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Old 06-05-2016, 07:54 PM   #19
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The people that are assembling these trailers are obviously going for speed not quality.
I always look forward to your contributions.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:09 PM   #20
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Me too, and sincerely
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