Dual Fuel Generator Propane Hookup?

[TTMartin]

I'm considering buying a Champion 2500 Dual Fuel Generator.

It is my understand that propane generators typically have a special regulator that functions differently than standard regulators. Some sort of demand valve rather than constant flow.

For those of you using a propane generator, how do you supply propane to it? The included regulator hooks up to high pressure propane. Do you just use it hooked to a propane tank, or does anyone have it running of the low pressure side of the trailer's propane system?

[Centex]

I'm curious, too.

I plowed through all of the Champion Dual Fuel documentation I could find and never encountered mention of the LP regulated pressure requirement or the specs on the included propane hose with external regulator.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Centex

I'm curious, too.

I plowed through all of the Champion Dual Fuel documentation I could find and never encountered mention of the LP regulated pressure requirement or the specs on the included propane hose with external regulator.

I found this video and double checked the photos on Amazon. It looks like the regulator and the demand portion are still two different pieces. I already have a 20lb tank / regulator / hose / quick connect, I made when I converted my Outland Firebowl to use the quick connect. So, I should be able to run it off of either the trailer quick connect or my tank quick connect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9oPwml5qLo

Now the big question is will the Champion 2500 be able to run the Dometic Penguin II since it's only 1665 running watts on propane? I am able to run the air conditioner without an Easy Start with my current WEN2350 with 3000 to 6000 foot carburetor jets. However that's with the converter disconnected and the refrigerator set to Gas. Which I expect to have to do with the Champion also. I'm hoping worse case is I will have to add a EasyStart to the air conditioner. Or maybe downgrade? / upgrade? to an Houghton 9500BTU unit

[Keith3]

Here is a link to another rv forum that talks about modifying the regulator system to use the low pressure outlet:

https://gdrvowners.com/forum/propane/43059-rv-to-champion-generator-propane-adapter

I think there is similar content on the airstream forums, iirc.

I have the parts but haven’t had the time to do this mod.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

I'm considering buying a Champion 2500 Dual Fuel Generator.

It is my understand that propane generators typically have a special regulator that functions differently than standard regulators. Some sort of demand valve rather than constant flow.

For those of you using a propane generator, how do you supply propane to it? The included regulator hooks up to high pressure propane. Do you just use it hooked to a propane tank, or does anyone have it running of the low pressure side of the trailer's propane system?

I actually have the Champion 2500 dual fuel. I replaced the first stage (high pressure stage) of the propane regulator with a 25 foot hose and quick connect. Now, I can run the generator straight off the quick connect port on the trailer.

Works great, and no problems with the propane flow even at max output of the generator.


FWIW, the hardest part was unscrewing the high pressure regulator from the demand regulator. There was some sort of sealing / binding compound on the threads that made it really hard to get off. (I'm sure it wasn't intended to come apart) Gently warming the fitting helped get it loose.

[Hawkeye Ed]

If you're serious about running your Champion dual-fuel inverter generator from your Escape's propane quick connect, Read On

In short: You can do it but you have to modify your propane regulator. Hutch Mountain <hutchmountain.com> has been selling kits like this for years that work on Honda inverter generators. Check with them and get them to put a Champion kit together for an easy modification. They're a small outfit and could use the business.

Long version: There is quite a bit of DIY information online about using propane from an RV quick connect to run a small generator. For example:

https://www.rvforum.net/threads/conn...onnect.134044/

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...or-136145.html

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f93/champ...em-344289.html

Champion and other dual-fuel generators or propane-only generators come with a regulator that is intended to connect to a regular high pressure barbecue-type LP bottle, with a hose and connection to the generator.

Take a look at the discussion on the Forest River forum, above. The OP said that he called Champion and they said the generators use propane reduced to .5 psi after their regulator which is basically the gas pressure in your camper's system. (The standard for the low pressure for your RV’s stove, furnace, refrigerator, and quick connect is about .4 psi (11 inches of water column)).

The third reference above has pictures showing how the OP converted the regulator that came with the propane generator to run off his RV’s low pressure quick connect.

The thing to remember is that the regulator that comes with the generator has two parts. You only remove the first, smaller part, the pressure regulator that normally reduces the high pressure from the tank to the low pressure for the generator. The second, bigger part, is a flow demand regulator that only feeds the generator the propane it needs. Without the demand regulator the generator would flood. So the OP bought an aftermarket quick connect fitting, attached it directly to the demand regulator and then ran the normal hose from his demand regulator to the generator.

One reference says: "that a 4000 watt generator will require less than 80k BTU at FULL load to operate, a standard RV auto changeover regulator such as the Marshall Excelsior MEGR-253 is capable of outputting 225K BTU on the primary cylinder and 150k on the secondary cylinder during auto change over, if you manually switch it, you regain the full 225k output. Even the low capacity model MEGR-253L is capable of 175K on primary and 100k on secondary. Basically you can run everything in the RV and still have enough btu capability left to run the generator too."

Just remember. The generator will work great but will use a lot of propane. You can drain a 20# tank in a few hours. If you run it off your RV's tanks, and stay for an appreciable amount of time, you're gonna be refilling the tanks frequently. Might it be easier to use a separate tank for your generator and not have to to the conversion?

Take a look at the Hutch Mountain web site and see how they do regulators for Honda generators. They sell one version that's just like what you get from Champion, a single unit that you screw onto a barbecue tank of propane and contains both the small pressure regulator and the large demand regulator. Hutch Mountain also sells a deluxe Tri-Fuel version the puts quick connects between the pressure and demand regulators, giving you the best of both worlds - run your generator from either a barbecue tank or your RV's low pressure quick connect.

Ed Simmers

[hugh]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Now the big question is will the Champion 2500 be able to run the Dometic Penguin II since it's only 1665 running watts on propane? I am able to run the air conditioner without an Easy Start with my current WEN2350 with 3000 to 6000 foot carburetor jets. However that's with the converter disconnected and the refrigerator set to Gas. Which I expect to have to do with the Champion also. I'm hoping worse case is I will have to add a EasyStart to the air conditioner. Or maybe downgrade? / upgrade? to an Houghton 9500BTU unit

That I can't help with, although I have found the specified 1665 running watts (on propane) is a little conservative. I was able to pull about 1800 continuous watts on propane without a problem.

FWIW, on my trailer, I installed a Victron Multiplus inverter. One of the nice features of that inverter is that it has a "power boost" function that automatically uses the batteries to provide any additional power beyond a configured shore power limit. So, when I'm running on my generator, I set the shore power limit to 15 amps, and anything above that (including AC startup) uses the batteries to provide the extra power.

[7Gentex]

My old Honda eu2000i (2k max / 1.6k run on gasoline) runs my Dometics P2 11k just fine even though the Honda has been converted to run on propane (Hutch Mountain conversion). I have not seen more than an 11 amp draw while running. Convertor off and fridge on propane. I have not tried over 90F ambient yet...............YMMV


I also got the kit from Hutch Mountain that allows me to connect to a low pressure port or a 20#/30# bottle.


Just in case for the 100F+ to come - I just bought a MicroAir easy start as they are on sale. Use "SPRING23" for 15% off.


Iowa Dave posted the sale and cost me money in another thread! Thanks!

[Iowa Dave]

I have a notebook of people who took my advice and disingenuously thanked me for the tip.
Recommendations include Micro air easy start, as mentioned, propane campfire, Manometer, bottle jack, 12volt rechargeable air compressor, Engel 12v / 120v cooler-freezer, rain gutters over windows, metal pull handles on black and grey tank valves, about 20 sets of Endurance trailer tires, tire repair kit, torque wrenches, Milwaukee multi-bit stubby screw driver etc etc. “I have seen the enemy and he is us” POGO
Unfortunately I do not own any stock in these companies.

We had pretty strict scrutiny on financial inappropriate behavior when I worked for the city. The auditor/comptroller was and still is a good friend. His boys were in the troop with my son. I bought some huge wood/ charcoal grills for the parks. We had a scout awards picnic at a park pavilion. About 60 people attended. It was a potluck and then the ceremony. I opened a 20 lb bag of charcoal and dumped it all in the grill. My friend asked why I got such big grills that ate so much charcoal. He was momentarily horrified when I told him I was getting kickbacks from Kingsford.
Got him again.
Iowa Dave

[C&G in FL]

I would add that a demand regulator is not a regulator in the conventional sense. It regulates flow, not pressure. Propane generators typically run on low pressure like water heaters, furnaces, etc. The generator will run on propane without a demand regulator, which really is a spring loaded valve that stops the flow of propane in the absence of vacuum provided by the generator’s engine when running. When the engine stops running, the spring loaded valve closes, stopping the flow of propane. A demand regulator typically has a button that is depressed for a few seconds to allow propane to flow into the generator for starting. Once it starts, vacuum keeps it open.

I have never taken my Honda 2000 on a camping trip although I made up a few hoses with low pressure fittings. I can run it using the QD on the Escape or on a 20 lbs cylinder using a regulator with a low pressure female QD fitting for an output. I installed a male QD fitting on the demand regulator. I only converted to propane because it is clean (doesn’t gum up) and a 20 lbs cylinder has a much longer run time than the Honda’s micro-sized gasoline tank (no 2:00 am fill-ups). My primary intended use for the generator is to provide an air conditioned space for sleeping in the event of an extended power outage, typically occurring in Florida following tropical weather during the hot months. If I needed to evacuate to points north because of an approaching storm, I would take the generator with me because it is likely all campgrounds would be full of evacuees like me.

[kathytony1985]

We hook ours up to a propane tank. We have a Firman dual fuel. Have only used it 20 hours in 1 1/2 years.

[hugh]

FWIW, here's a pic of the regulator for my Champion 2500, with the quick connect hose attached.


In terms of propane consumption, I can get about 20Kwh of electricity out of a 20lb tank, so about 17% energy efficiency from propane to electricity. (Which is pretty typical for small generators)

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

I have a notebook of people who took my advice and disingenuously thanked me for the tip...................
Iowa Dave

I was sincere in the Thanks for the sale info...............I was joking about "cost me money"



On another aspect of these small gens:

Engine size

Honda eu2000i - 98.5cc

Honda eu2200i - 121cc

Champion 2000 (#100900) AND the 2500 (#200961) - both 79cc

The old Honda eu2000i has 25% more displacement than the Champions. The eu2200i has 53% more............

Might be an item in the surge/start capabilities................?

Though at a price of $460, I may pick up a Champion #200961 dual fuel to have as a back up to my old eu2000i.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

I was sincere in the Thanks for the sale info...............I was joking about "cost me money"



On another aspect of these small gens:

Engine size

Honda eu2000i - 98.5cc

Honda eu2200i - 121cc

Champion 2000 (#100900) AND the 2500 (#200961) - both 79cc

The old Honda eu2000i has 25% more displacement than the Champions. The eu2200i has 53% more............

Might be an item in the surge/start capabilities................?

Though at a price of $460, I may pick up a Champion #200961 dual fuel to have as a back up to my old eu2000i.

Yeah, I guess you get what you pay for. Looks like the Champion engine is more heavily loaded, so shorter engine life and probably noisier too.

[Rockhead]

Originally Posted by hugh

Yeah, I guess you get what you pay for. Looks like the Champion engine is more heavily loaded, so shorter engine life and probably noisier too.

Honda 2200i 57 db

Champion 2500 53 db

[hugh]

Originally Posted by Rockhead

Honda 2200i 57 db

Champion 2500 53 db

Yeah, but the Champion is spec'd at 53db at some unspecified load. As they don't specify, I'm guessing it's the noise level at idle. They don't provide numbers of any other load, so there's no way to know how much louder it can get.


The Honda is 53db at 1/4 load, going up to 62db at full load.


FWIW, I actually don't think my Champion is that loud, but I'd be very suprised if it was quieter than a Honda. It certainly makes a bit of a racket at full load.

[Iowa Dave]

I don’t engage in questioning other folks choices for a purchase.. Working in government and having a revolving door on purchasing agent officers, I learned to work with what they bought for me. I think the World of my brother. He is mechanically very talented. After the derecho in 2020 I ran my house on two Honda 2200s for 11 days before we got power back. He went about 9 days with his pretty good sized Champion (like 5500 watts), a capacitor failed about 3 pm one day.. He found the manual and the circuitry schematic, headed to Grainger, Got his park and was back in business for a few dollars. My neighbor hooked up a Champion to the well pump serving 10 homes. It ran about 20+ hours a day for 11 days and never missed a beat. I camped across from a guy who had a pair or smaller Yamahas linked together with about a 6 gallon gas tank. He’d start them about 8 in the morning and shut them down about 9 at night. They didn’t work hard but did cycle his AC when he was nowhere around, He was out with his boat .
So with me it’s as long as you’re happy with something that’s the one you ought to have. I have several Honda engines but my mower is a 27hp. Kawasaki.

Glad some folks got a sale price on the Micro air. Invited friends to a Campfire in a can campfire one night. One of the wives really liked the concept so they bought one. Since then we’ve had several fires, all with his campfire in a can. Hew was mumbling something about me owing him a tank of Propane. It’s all good.
Iowa Dave

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Now the big question is will the Champion 2500 be able to run the Dometic Penguin II since it's only 1665 running watts on propane? I am able to run the air conditioner without an Easy Start with my current WEN2350 with 3000 to 6000 foot carburetor jets. However that's with the converter disconnected and the refrigerator set to Gas. Which I expect to have to do with the Champion also. I'm hoping worse case is I will have to add a EasyStart to the air conditioner. Or maybe downgrade? / upgrade? to an Houghton 9500BTU unit

I'm currently in Ohio about 800' above sea level. I tried the Champion 2500 on Propane and it had no problem running my Penguin II air conditioner with the fan manually set to low on propane. So now to convert it to work with the low pressure hookup.

[Grasshog]

I have a champion duel fuel and I just use the regulator that came with that actual generator. I have the 4500. I love the propane because I don’t have to worry about gas getting old been a great generator for me.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Grasshog

I have a champion duel fuel and I just use the regulator that came with that actual generator. I have the 4500. I love the propane because I don’t have to worry about gas getting old been a great generator for me.

To clarify your setup for me, you connect directly to a propane tank with the Champion supplied hose / regulator / demand regulator setup, not the low pressure QD port on the trailer?