Electrical Challenge: 2014 Escape 21

[Fletch Dobbs]

Hi,
My 2014 Escape 21 has been sitting since last September. Today, I went out to uncover and wash it, and to complete a systems check before our first weekend outing of 2021. Now, when I plug in shore power, the GFCI on the 120V outlet the trailer is plugged into trips.

I think I have narrowed down the problem to a particular circuit by completing the following steps:

- Disconnect the shore power cord from the 120V GFCI outlet
- Reset the 120V GFCI outlet
- Turn off every breaker in the trailer breaker box
- Reconnect the shore power
- Turn on the trailer breakers one at a time until the problem repeats
- I can turn on all circuits except one of the 15 Amp breakers, which seems to support only the refrigerator
- When the problem breaker is turned to the "on" position, the GFCI outlet the trailer is connected to trips and shore power is lost.
- Until the problem breaker is turned on, the Progressive Industries display show all is normal. e.g.: "120V, 0 A, E 0"

An image of the breaker box is included here, showing the problem 15 Amp circuit in the "off" position.

One other curious thing I now noticed for the first time. All of the breakers are 15 Amp except the Main, which is 30 Amp. One of the fuses, which seems to be protecting the refrigerator is a 20 Amp fuse. Shouldn't that fuse be a 15 Amp, no bigger than the circuit it is part of?

Everything has worked flawlessly all these years. Is it possible some water got into the exterior connector shore power connector or into the refrigerator compartment and caused this trouble? I guess we can go this weekend and just use propane to run the refrigerator ...

Anyone have any suggestions about what might be wrong? Any and all suggestions will be gratefully received!Thank you!
Fletch Dobbs

[Fletch Dobbs]

Whoops! I see in the picture where one of the other breakers is a 30 Amp...not just the Main. Sorry about that!

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by Fletch Dobbs

One other curious thing I now noticed for the first time. All of the breakers are 15 Amp except the Main, which is 30 Amp. One of the fuses, which seems to be protecting the refrigerator is a 20 Amp fuse. Shouldn't that fuse be a 15 Amp, no bigger than the circuit it is part of?

The 15 amp fuse is on the ac side and the 20 amp fuse is on the DC side. This is not a problem as AC and DC are different wiring and have different draw requirements
Now on the problem the breaker that is tripping the GFI runs the fridge and also runs the converter r. so the problem could be with either . I assume when that breaker is off you have no internal lights? If your comfortable doing electric I would separate the fringe and converter to see witch one it is. Another thing I would check even know that the breaker in not tripping . It the Electric element in the hot water heater. If left on with no water these will burn out and do some weird electric problem. I not sure on a 2014 if the fridge ac has a plug on it? it be worth checking . Remove fridge side vent cover. If there is a plug unplug fridge and repeat test. That would get you down to fridge or converter. Hopefully someone jumps on that has a 2104 and might be more help.

[Fletch Dobbs]

Hi NEWYORKHILLBILLY,
The interior lights work. Thanks for pointing to both the converter box and the refrigerator! I will see if I can isolate those two devices and rule one or the other out. Also will check the water heater. Not sure if that might be the culprit. Thanks again! I’m always happy to hear and learn something new. I’m such an electrical systems neophyte!

[John in Santa Cruz]

the GFCI outlet on the kitchen side should just have the outside outlet on the curb side connected to it. GFCI only protects stuff thats 'downstream' from it, and anything in the rest of the trailer should have zero impact on it.

mine will trip if its been raining a lot. they trip if the current on the live and neutral side of the 120VAC circuit isn't equal.

[Vermilye]

A fault to ground in the refrigerator electric heating element would cause this problem, and is a common problem. The element can be replaced, although getting the part from Dometic may be a problem - they are having all kinds of problems supplying parts.

Michael's (NEWYORKHILLBILLY's) suggestion of isolating the refrigerator from the converter is a good one. I believe all the Escape refrigerators have a plug on the 120V circuit that is accessible from the lower outside refrigerator grill.

If it is the converter, a replacement is about the only solution.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by Fletch Dobbs

Hi NEWYORKHILLBILLY,
The interior lights work. Thanks for pointing to both the converter box and the refrigerator! I will see if I can isolate those two devices and rule one or the other out. Also will check the water heater. Not sure if that might be the culprit. Thanks again! I’m always happy to hear and learn something new. I’m such an electrical systems neophyte!

With the converter breaker off the lights must be getting powered by the battery. with battery switch off you should only have lights with the converter breaker on. A easy way to check the hot water element is disconnect the two wires going to it. then repeat you test. turning off brecker or switch to the hot water element will not work. as the switch only switch the power lead. I had this happen in a casita and it took me awhile to find .

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the GFCI outlet on the kitchen side should just have the outside outlet on the curb side connected to it. GFCI only protects stuff thats 'downstream' from it, and anything in the rest of the trailer should have zero impact on it.

mine will trip if its been raining a lot. they trip if the current on the live and neutral side of the 120VAC circuit isn't equal.

John: Fletch is referring to the GFCI that he has the trailer plugged into is tripping. Not the GFCI outlet in the trailer.

[Fletch Dobbs]

Thank you all for your pointers. I now have some things to check later this morning! I'll be back with an update once I'm closer to identifying the misbehaving system.

Thanks very much again!

Fletch

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY

Another thing I would check even know that the breaker in not tripping . It the Electric element in the hot water heater. If left on with no water these will burn out and do some weird electric problem. I not sure on a 2014 if the fridge ac has a plug on it? it be worth checking . Remove fridge side vent cover. If there is a plug unplug fridge and repeat test.

Originally Posted by Vermilye

A fault to ground in the refrigerator electric heating element would cause this problem, and is a common problem. The element can be replaced, although getting the part from Dometic may be a problem - they are having all kinds of problems supplying parts.

Michael's (NEWYORKHILLBILLY's) suggestion of isolating the refrigerator from the converter is a good one. I believe all the Escape refrigerators have a plug on the 120V circuit that is accessible from the lower outside refrigerator grill.

If it is the converter, a replacement is about the only solution.

Ground faults are tricky. They cannot be isolated with breakers because that is only the hot side and the fault still exists and will be detected by the GFCI that trailer is plugged into. We had a failed HW heater element that failed hot-to-ground and the house GFCI would trip when the air conditioner was turned on. Huh? Believe it had to do with a certain amount of load on the system to trigger the ground fault which work by comparing the amount of current going to and returning from equipment along the circuit conductors.

It's entirely possible that you are tripping GFCI when you turn the 15A breaker on because the automatic converter/charger load is put onto the system. Doesn't necessarily mean the problem is related to equipment on that breaker. Try running another high load appliance (not just flipping breaker on) like microwave or air conditioner and see if the GFCI trips as well. [War story: If something fails hot-to-ground and you are plugged into a non-GFI outlet, have a bad ground prong on your cord and don't have an EMS to lock out power on open ground you will energize the trailer frame which is very dangerous.]

So bottom line - you must completely isolate (disconnect) the devices to know if they are causing the ground fault. The hot water heater breaker can be turned off and the wires to the element removed. The fridge can be unplugged or power shut off and 120V electric element wires disconnected. Converters fail but I've never heard of it creating a ground fault when they do. I would suspect the HW heater or fridge electric element failure first.

[Fletch Dobbs]

Well now I'm really stumped. With the suspect breaker still off, I unplugged the refrigerator in the outside access then turned on the breaker. Everything stayed on. Went out and plugged the refrigerator in and still, everything stayed on. Powered on the refrigerator...everything stayed on! So now, I am plugged into shore power, the EMS is on and reporting all normal, and the refrigerator is running on 120V. What should I be worried about now? Is it possible that when I washed the trailer, I inadvertently sprayed water onto/into something that caused the shore power outlet GFCI to trip? That has never happened before and I have washed the trailer while plugged in to shore power many times.

BTW, I did verify that with the suspect 15 Amp breaker off and the battery on/off switch turned off, my overhead lights do not work so they are also on the suspect circuit...I didn't check to see what else is on it ....

I'm good to go...until it fails again. ARRGH!!

[John in Santa Cruz]

a dirty wet outlet can 'leak' current from live to ground, this can cause sufficient current differential between live and neutral, which is what triggers a GFCI to trip.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Fletch Dobbs

BTW, I did verify that with the suspect 15 Amp breaker off and the battery on/off switch turned off, my overhead lights do not work so they are also on the suspect circuit...I didn't check to see what else is on it …

Fletch: The lights are 12V DC. When you turned the 120V 15A circuit off which feeds the converter/charger you cut power to your entire 12V DC board from one side (#1 on photo). When you flipped the battery isolation switch you cut 12V DC power from the onboard battery (#2 on photo). In this scenario nothing that is wired via the 12V DC board on the right side of your power center would have power. The only exception would be if you plugged in your 7 pin to your truck and provided some power on the charge line (#3 on photo).

*Please note this base schematic was done by tdf-texas and has some upgraded wiring. It likely does not match your trailer exactly but it clearly shows how the 12V DC board can receive power.