electrical gremlins

[CharlesPou]

have 2018 Escape 21, factory EMS, 2 6 volt batteries, no solar. camping at Choke Canyon SP TX I used my electric chainsaw to cut up some fire wood. I would normally use the campground shore power, but for some reason, the 120 volt outlet was blocked and not available. trailer has one outside 120 volt outlet so I used that to power my chainsaw. worked OK, no problems. later I noticed the EMS had shut down the shore power and I was operating off batteries, so 120 volt outlets were not working.

I verified that shore power was working, it was. I checked the GFCI on the outside outlet and didn't appear to work properly, it wouldn't reset. then I turned off the EMS and everything was back to normal. I went back outside and set the GFCI, and when I turned on EMS it immediately shut down shore power again.

chainsaw is small 14" limb and trim, 2 prong plug with no ground, I use it often with my Honda 2000 gen, and at the house no problems. 1st time ever used the trailer outside GFCI plug. next time the 120 volt shore power plug is blocked, I would definitely hesitate to use the trailer 120 volt outlet.

next campground, Inks Lake SP TX all is back to normal, except now the 120 volt outlet between the sink and stove doesn't work.

I did some searching before making this post, and got some good info, but thought my situation was interesting enough to make this post. I did learn that having the electric waterheater on maybe caused the problem?, it was on. maybe plugging a 2 prong plug with no ground into the GFCI is an issue, IDK. I initially thought I would need to replace the GFCI, but appears to be working OK now? next I need to check the fuse for the 120 volt outlet that's not working. unfortunately, my trailer is in storage and not available, so any further testing will have to wait.

I know some often exclaim the EMS is your friend, but for me not so much lols. cheers

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I need to check the fuse for the 120 volt outlet that's not working.

I always thought that outlet was on the same circuit as the exterior GFI outlet but wired downstream for protection. If the GFI outlet is working that outlet should be working.

[CharlesPou]

update: I'm ordering the 30amp shore power to 120 volt adapter for next time. I think maybe the surging power demands using the chainsaw messed up the trailer EMS, but IDK.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-PowerGr...09CS1XFWW?th=1

[CharlesPou]

rubicon, thanks for reply. the outlets by the bed and under the table all worked, just not the kitchen outlets, so maybe that one is wired with the outside GFCI, IDK. I can't recall if GFCI was set at next campground, I don't remember checking it? you saying outside GFCI could be blown and not effect the other 2 outlets inside the trailer? all very confusing to me, just know probably not using outside outlets with chainsaw again lols.

I met another camper with Casita on this trip. they plugged something into trailer outside outlet, maybe 20amps and messed up a lot of the inside electrical, approx 50% of trailer electrical went on fritz. they couldn't figure out, so made appointment with factory to take by and trouble shoot. was a good story to reinforce idea be careful what you plug into your trailer? cheers

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

rubicon, thanks for reply. the outlets by the bed and under the table all worked, just not the kitchen outlets, so maybe that one is wired with the outside GFCI, IDK. I can't recall if GFCI was set at next campground, I don't remember checking it? you saying outside GFCI could be blown and not effect the other 2 outlets inside the trailer? all very confusing to me, just know probably not using outside outlets with chainsaw again lols.

I'm not exactly sure how you are wired but I do know the kitchen outlets on all trailers should be wired downstream (load side; away from breaker) of the exterior GFI. This provides ground fault protection to these outlets without the need for additional GFI outlets which are costly. It's typical in houses too. If you have power at the exterior outlet you should have power at the interior kitchen outlets. I would expect that all other outlets are either on another circuit or possibly upstream of the GFCI and would work fine as long as the breaker isn't tripped in the WFCO power center. One thing that I found valuable when I was doing some electrical upgrades was testing each outlet to see what circuit it was wired on. Helpful to know for any future troubleshooting.

[davidmurphy02]

I don't see any mention of an error code on the EMS. Normally when it cuts off shore power it will show an error code, i.e. E4 for low voltage, all the codes are listed in the EMS manual. Even after the condition is resolved and it restores power, it will still display the error code with "PE" for prior error.

[HABBERDABBER]

I have been told by an electrician that consumer grade GFI's have a limited lifetime and commercial grade (more expensive) are better, in the long run.
Buy the best you can afford, so I've been told.

[CharlesPou]

thanks for replies, unfortunately, I didn't note error code on EMS, will do more trouble shooting later? I'm light on anything electrical, so not clear on upstream/ downstream meaning. I guess downstream means power goes to exterior GFCI then to kitchen outlet?, and upstream means power to other interior outlets bypasses exterior GFCI?, apparently, that's how it's wired because that's how it behaves. cheers

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

thanks for replies, unfortunately, I didn't note error code on EMS, will do more trouble shooting later? I'm light on anything electrical, so not clear on upstream/ downstream meaning. I guess downstream means power goes to exterior GFCI then to kitchen outlet?, and upstream means power to other interior outlets bypasses exterior GFCI?, apparently, that's how it's wired because that's how it behaves. cheers

Replace the gfi with a regular outlet, if that fixes your problems then put a new gfi in it’s place.
Like Habber said they do go bad.
Checkout some of the battery operated chainsaws, I have a cheap battery operated pole saw that has been a workhorse for years now.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I'm light on anything electrical, so not clear on upstream/ downstream meaning. I guess downstream means power goes to exterior GFCI then to kitchen outlet?, and upstream means power to other interior outlets bypasses exterior GFCI?, apparently, that's how it's wired because that's how it behaves. cheers

Yes, correct. The outlets are daisy-chained in series from the power center breaker. If the power hits a regular outlet first it is unprotected by the GFI. If an outlet is after the GFI it is also protected by that GFI.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo

Replace the gfi with a regular outlet, if that fixes your problems then put a new gfi in it’s place.
Like Habber said they do go bad.
Checkout some of the battery operated chainsaws, I have a cheap battery operated pole saw that has been a workhorse for years now.

If you don't know the difference between upstream and downstream PLEASE do not mess with replacing an outlet.....also a GFCI will not reset when it has failed the reset button just pops in and out but will not hold in.

[CharlesPou]

yes, battery operated chainsaw is good idea, may get one? cheers

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

If you don't know the difference between upstream and downstream PLEASE do not mess with replacing an outlet.....also a GFCI will not reset when it has failed the reset button just pops in and out but will not hold in.

It also will not reset if it is not receiving power.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

It also will not reset if it is not receiving power.

Good point....thanks for the clarification! Mostly be safe....if you are short on electrical knowledge find someone who knows more about it and don't get hurt.

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

yes, battery operated chainsaw is good idea, may get one? cheers

There are so many choices out there nowadays and all will do the job. I attempt to keep my batteries I’m using for tools down to as few brands as possible.

As far as you attempting to replace the gfi yourself, if I listened to negativity I never would’ve learned to work on as many things as I’m now able. It’s not something to take lightly but all that know at one time didn’t know, if one person can learn it so can you. Learning about and how to work on you camper yourself can be very rewarding in many different ways.
I am that guy who knows these things and I can tell you a gfi can be haunted, they aren’t as cut and dry as a regular outlet. Troubleshooting is another one of those things you will get better at. With the internet and a forum like this one it’s way easier than ever before.
I learned long ago if you’re going to own certain items that require maintenance you’d better be ready to own that item or don’t bother purchasing it.
Having the proper tools is also a big part of success, I say enjoy your camper in every way…

[sameo416]

The EMS issue and the GFCI issue may be unrelated. Possible your saw tripped the GFCI, and there was a different shore power problem. That it returned to normal when you bypassed the EMS suggests the issue was with shore power. The error code will tell you the EMS condition sensed.

The kitchen counter outlets are wired off the external GFCI, so if tripped or faulty those will not work.

I’m trying to imagine a scenario where your saw would cause the EMS to trip, can’t imagine one.

No ground pin plugged into the GFCI is not an issue.

The GFCI should reset when connected to 120. If it doesn’t confirm the breaker isn’t tripped. If the breaker is on it may be a bad GFCI. The replacement is straight forward, just remember which wires are connected to the original, duplicate that on the replacement. The supply wires come in to one set if terminals on the GFCI, then the wires to the kitchen outlets to the other set. Don’t want to reverse those.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

I have been told by an electrician that consumer grade GFI's have a limited lifetime and commercial grade (more expensive) are better, in the long run.
Buy the best you can afford, so I've been told.

Found out a long time ago don't buy GFI's at Lowes, Menards, or Home Depot.

Go to your area's electrical supply store where electricians get their supplies. I was not impressed with the 110 outlets Escape used in our 5.0.

Enjoy,

Perry

[BobG]

I had to replace the outside GFI on my first camping trip so would not be surprised if you have a bad GFI. It was a lot of work to figure out the GFI was bad because I didn't think that it could be the problem.



I am also not impressed with the outlets in the trailer. I have read that they are typically used in trailers. I don't know if they are used in residential but I haven't seen them in residential.

[John in Santa Cruz]

the outlets in my trailer are Decora style, but I don't know if they are actually Leviton Decora, or just cheapest clone.

[CharlesPou]

thanks for all the great comments, will trouble shoot some more, maybe replace GFCI outlet on outside, I've already replaced 2 outside lights, hardest part was getting the housing properly sealed to the body and looking neat, upstream/ downstream?, just have to take pic and reassemble like it was, easypeasy, lols, cheers