Electrical gremlins and plumbing stacks...

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by dbailey

...
Something thin enough to self-level and fill the whole space sounds like the right solution.
...

Search for this: BOATLIFE Liquid Life-Calk Sealant

Very fluid at first, very strong when cured. One downside is the "10-20 days to fully cure".

--
Alan

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by dbailey

The reason I can't use normal the caulking is simply that there isn't enough room. The place that needs caulk is 3 or 4 inches down in the gap between the ABS pipe and the side of the vent. And that gap is not wide enough to see what you're doing or to work the angle of the caulk gun correctly. Putty doesn't work because I can't get my finger in the gap to shape the putty.

Something thin enough to self-level and fill the whole space sounds like the right solution. If I can't find something liquid, I will try a large volume of normal caulk and use a stick or something similar to spread it around.

Make sure that what is used to thin the self leveling caulk does not attack the existing caulk or plastic.

[cpaharley2008]

Proflex has a liquid sealant for horizontal surfaces that runs a little whereas the vertical surface Proflex sticks right away.

[dbailey]

OK, here are the promised pictures...

First, here's a link to the manufacturer's (Heng's industries) site, since I forgot to take a photo with the cap still on:

Attached below you'll find my pictures of my vent, with the cap off.

The first just gives context. This is the vent over the bathroom in the 19. I have already removed the top rain cap.

The second shows the ABS pipe inside this vent cover. It goes up behind the rounded corner of the shower stall, through the roof of the trailer. The Heng's cover provides a finished look to the black ABS and provides a rain cover.

But under windy conditions, rain can blow under the cap. The third the fourth photos look down inside the Heng's cover. There's space between the Heng's cover and the ABS pipe. Water can accumulate here.

(These also gives you an idea of how tight the space is if you're going to try to repair the caulking. You need to get down 3 or 4 inches to where the ABS comes through the trailer roof, but you've only got 1/2" or so between the ABS pipe and the rim of the Heng's vent cover.)

In the fourth picture you can see some of the caulking putty at the bottom of the ABS pipe. This is intended to keep water from entering the trailer if it gets between the ABS and the Heng's cover. But as I found, the putty had migrated up the pipe (presumably due to everything flexing with movement or temperature changes).

It no longer provides a seal, and any water that gets in this space runs down the ABS pipe, between the shower wall and the wall beside the dinette, into the guts of the trailer. I'm not sure where it goes, exactly, but the EMS and converter are located close to that pipe. And as the trailer changes position and particularly angle, the course of the water might change.

I'm not sure how it could have gotten over to the furnace (other side of the shower), but maybe the furnace problems I was seeing were caused by the electrical connections to the converter. The unusually high power drain did suggest a partial short, so maybe it was the furnace power circuit that was shorted, so that the furnace itself wasn't seeing sufficient voltage. (I'm not suggesting a full zero-resistance short (that would pop the fuse), just a bit of water letting a trickle of power through -- enough to drop the voltage at the furnace.)

Anyway, that's my theory.

Thanks for the suggestions for fixing the caulking in there.

[cpaharley2008]

Just as you described, Doug, thanks for the pictures. This will give others a chance to see exactly if there are any potential leaks and how to seal them. Let us know on your choice of sealant.

[AKCamper]

Did the cap just pop off? If you can just pop the cap back on after you are done I don't see why you couldn't make up some kind of swab with a wooden skewer and some cotton cloth and clean it best you can and then take some of that sealer that is self leveling and put a couple of layers in there between the pipe and the cap. I might drill a hole from the outside through both the cap and the pipe when the sealer was dry and then seal the cap up. This way any water that gets inside can drain down the inside of the vent pipe. It would only have to be an eight of an inch or so. Then seal the outside with 3m 5200. Just a thought. The hardest part would be making sure you got the inside of the cap and the pipe clean and dry before you started trying to seal it.

[dbailey]

Originally Posted by AKCamper

Did the cap just pop off? If you can just pop the cap back on after you are done I don't see why you couldn't make up some kind of swab with a wooden skewer and some cotton cloth and clean it best you can and then take some of that sealer that is self leveling and put a couple of layers in there between the pipe and the cap. I might drill a hole from the outside through both the cap and the pipe when the sealer was dry and then seal the cap up. This way any water that gets inside can drain down the inside of the vent pipe. It would only have to be an eight of an inch or so. Then seal the outside with 3m 5200. Just a thought. The hardest part would be making sure you got the inside of the cap and the pipe clean and dry before you started trying to seal it.

That's kind-of my plan. Yes, the cap can be reattached -- it twists a 1/8 turn to lock on or take off (4 tabs on the cap match up with the 4 corners you see in my pictures).

I plan to clean it as best I can, and then pour in some sort of sealant. Depending on the sealent, I might just put in enough to bring the level up to the top of the ABS -- then I don't need to worry about drilling a hole to let the area drain. Of course that depends on finding something that I can apply very thickly. One reason for this is that there is a little play in the ABS pipe, so as it flexes it will put stress on whatever sealant I use. Filling the whole area makes that less important.

Alternately, I might get an oscilating tool with a cutter and put notches down the ABS pipe so the drain path is closer to the roof (but not too close...). That would be easier than trying to drill in there, I think.

But first I need to find a suitable sealant. What comes next will depend on the properties of the sealant.

[rubicon327]

Personally if I had this issue I would probably just remove the vent cover altogether, make a very good repair around the vent pipe that I was 100% confident in and then reinstall a new cover assembly.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by dbailey

That's kind-of my plan. Yes, the cap can be reattached -- it twists a 1/8 turn to lock on or take off (4 tabs on the cap match up with the 4 corners you see in my pictures).

I plan to clean it as best I can, and then pour in some sort of sealant. Depending on the sealent, I might just put in enough to bring the level up to the top of the ABS -- then I don't need to worry about drilling a hole to let the area drain. Of course that depends on finding something that I can apply very thickly. One reason for this is that there is a little play in the ABS pipe, so as it flexes it will put stress on whatever sealant I use. Filling the whole area makes that less important.

Alternately, I might get an oscilating tool with a cutter and put notches down the ABS pipe so the drain path is closer to the roof (but not too close...). That would be easier than trying to drill in there, I think.

But first I need to find a suitable sealant. What comes next will depend on the properties of the sealant.

Again, please make sure that whatever you decide to use is compatible with the existing sealant and plastics.
It would ruin your day to have whatever you use either dissolve the existing sealant and run down into the body or worse make the plastic pieces rubbery.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by dbailey

OK, here are the promised pictures...

First, here's a link to the manufacturer's (Heng's industries) site, since I forgot to take a photo with the cap still on:

Attached below you'll find my pictures of my vent, with the cap off.

The first just gives context. This is the vent over the bathroom in the 19. I have already removed the top rain cap.

The second shows the ABS pipe inside this vent cover. It goes up behind the rounded corner of the shower stall, through the roof of the trailer. The Heng's cover provides a finished look to the black ABS and provides a rain cover.

But under windy conditions, rain can blow under the cap. The third the fourth photos look down inside the Heng's cover. There's space between the Heng's cover and the ABS pipe. Water can accumulate here.

(These also gives you an idea of how tight the space is if you're going to try to repair the caulking. You need to get down 3 or 4 inches to where the ABS comes through the trailer roof, but you've only got 1/2" or so between the ABS pipe and the rim of the Heng's vent cover.)

In the fourth picture you can see some of the caulking putty at the bottom of the ABS pipe. This is intended to keep water from entering the trailer if it gets between the ABS and the Heng's cover. But as I found, the putty had migrated up the pipe (presumably due to everything flexing with movement or temperature changes).

It no longer provides a seal, and any water that gets in this space runs down the ABS pipe, between the shower wall and the wall beside the dinette, into the guts of the trailer. I'm not sure where it goes, exactly, but the EMS and converter are located close to that pipe. And as the trailer changes position and particularly angle, the course of the water might change.

I'm not sure how it could have gotten over to the furnace (other side of the shower), but maybe the furnace problems I was seeing were caused by the electrical connections to the converter. The unusually high power drain did suggest a partial short, so maybe it was the furnace power circuit that was shorted, so that the furnace itself wasn't seeing sufficient voltage. (I'm not suggesting a full zero-resistance short (that would pop the fuse), just a bit of water letting a trickle of power through -- enough to drop the voltage at the furnace.)

Anyway, that's my theory.

Thanks for the suggestions for fixing the caulking in there.

Thankyou Doug for the pictures . Now I get it . Will need to check ours out this weekend . I think I would fix how Dave suggested for myself . Thankyou again for the head's up . Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Personally if I had this issue I would probably just remove the vent cover altogether, make a very good repair around the vent pipe that I was 100% confident in and then reinstall a new cover assembly.

Similarly, I would (and did, when I had an old and broken vent) completely remove the Heng's assembly, clean up the old sealant, and install a vent cap which specifically fits the pipe diameter and seals to the pipe. I used a Ventline V2049, which is really common. With this type of vent, there is no need to seal the pipe to the trailer shell; the seal is between the pipe and vent, and is protected by the cap.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Similarly, I would (and did, when I had an old and broken vent) completely remove the Heng's assembly, clean up the old sealant, and install a vent cap which specifically fits the pipe diameter and seals to the pipe. I used a Ventline V2049, which is really common. With this type of vent, there is no need to seal the pipe to the trailer shell; the seal is between the pipe and vent, and is protected by the cap.

Now that makes the most sense ! Pat

[thoer]

On our 21, the actual vent stack inside the vent cap is flexible tubing (that runs thru the closet) and ETI sealed around it with expanding foam.

[dbailey]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Similarly, I would (and did, when I had an old and broken vent) completely remove the Heng's assembly, clean up the old sealant, and install a vent cap which specifically fits the pipe diameter and seals to the pipe. I used a Ventline V2049, which is really common. With this type of vent, there is no need to seal the pipe to the trailer shell; the seal is between the pipe and vent, and is protected by the cap.

That is a good approach... Given that the Heng's is cracked as well as not well sealed, I think this is what I will do...

[dbailey]

Originally Posted by thoer

On our 21, the actual vent stack inside the vent cap is flexible tubing (that runs thru the closet) and ETI sealed around it with expanding foam.

It looks like they did this on the vent over the sink, but that bathroom vent is obviously different.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Similarly, I would (and did, when I had an old and broken vent) completely remove the Heng's assembly, clean up the old sealant, and install a vent cap which specifically fits the pipe diameter and seals to the pipe. I used a Ventline V2049, which is really common. With this type of vent, there is no need to seal the pipe to the trailer shell; the seal is between the pipe and vent, and is protected by the cap.

Great idea. This is another option that should work.
www.etrailer.com/RV-Vents-and-Fans/Camco/CAM40033.html

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Great idea. This is another option that should work.
www.etrailer.com/RV-Vents-and-Fans/Camco/CAM40033.html

Awfully expensive, don't you think?

[Vermilye]

One thing to watch when replacing the entire vent - on my 17, the curve of the roof was such that the "sturdy" replacement vent I purchased wouldn't bent to attach it to the curved roofline. The one that Escape used was soft enough that it did.

[gocamp]

I would wonder of that little play in the ABS pipe you (Doug) mention, so as it flexes it will put stress on the whole pipe asssembly on down if you bond the pipe to the shell with sealant. The factory might have already figured for that flex in the way they don't seal it to the shell. Brian, what you you think? And important/great point Vermilye.

[dbailey]

I finally got a dry weekend day last Saturday, and had a chance to replace the vent.

The first picture shows what I found when I removed the old Heng's vent cap. Not very pretty... The thing is actually designed worse than I originally thought. Definitely a source of leaks... You can see by the algae stains that I've had water sitting where there should be no water for some time. And you can see that the butyl caulking was completely ineffective, presumably because the ABS pipe moves around with movement of the trailer and with temperature changes.

The second picture shows the new vent cover the next morning, after the dicor had a chance to self-level. Hopefully by electrical gremlims have now been successfully banished...

Thanks for the discussion, folks. These forums are a great source of information.