Electrical help needed - no 120V

[moenkopi]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

i

Just a few questions

1 ) According to the OP the trailer has been sitting for 4 months in storage - “plugged in” yet the battery is at 80% —Why ?
2) Is this a chain reaction ?
IE ; Is the EMS screwed up ( bad relay ? ) so that the converter is not getting proper voltage from the EMS and the converter battery charger cannot keep the battery fully charged ?
3) Is the problem with the inverter an internal inverter issue or low DC input voltage ?
4 ) The issues with the refrigerator may be nothing more than low DC voltage —The refrigerator does have a low voltage cutout


I doubt everything failed all at once — I like Jon’s idea , splice out the line and load wires on the EMS main relay and eliminate the EMS from the circuit . Personally I think the factory EMS is a waste of money and a disaster / failure waiting to happen but I digress.
I would also split the repairs into separate segments , Get the 120 VAC utility power working first so that the converter is powered and the battery gets fully charged and then work on the inverter issues

All great points. I’ll be looking into it today. This all started because our home AC quit and I was looking to set up the trailer to sleep in.

They say bad luck comes in threes. I’m at two....🙄

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

As a mechanical engineer don't I know that well!

Yea. I’m not sure if it is an example of Mr. Murphy in action, but I have come to expect it so that I am no longer surprised when it happens!

[davescape]

Were you trying to operate both inverter and shore power at the same time? Perhaps the staccato switching is the EMS which is sensing some anomaly.

[moenkopi]

I want to thank everyone who offered advice on my electrical trouble. It really helped clarify things for me as I dealt with two AC units - one trailer, one house - that weren’t working.

It turned out to be the EMS. Once I bypassed that, all the 110V gear came on. I'm still waiting for the fridge to cool off while running on AC. And I’m also waiting to see if the charge controller brings the batteries back up. Any further thoughts are welcome. The idea to bypass the EMS may have saved me a lot of time, as did the suggestion to reset the outside GFI.

Again, thanks so much. This is the first time i’v asked for help here and I have to say i’m impressed!

[moenkopi]

OK, so it looks like the EMS failure also toasted my Gopower charge controller. I am not a fan of that thing. It failed once already, shortly after we got the trailer, and I’m not sure I want another. I'd prefer an MPPT unit, and if it also had a good battery monitor function (input/output amp monitoring etc). If anyone has replaced the Gopower unit with something better, I’d like to hear your stories. Thanks!

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by moenkopi

OK, so it looks like the EMS failure also toasted my Gopower charge controller. I am not a fan of that thing. It failed once already, shortly after we got the trailer, and I’m not sure I want another. I'd prefer an MPPT unit, and if it also had a good battery monitor function (input/output amp monitoring etc). If anyone has replaced the Gopower unit with something better, I’d like to hear your stories. Thanks!

I replaced my GoPower controller with a Victron 100/30. I've been happy with it running either 320 watts of rooftop solar or with the addition of another 160 watts of portable panel.

Still, the failure of the EMS should have nothing to do with the solar controller. There is no connection between them; the EMS is part of the 120V system, while the solar controller is part of the 12V system. Check the connections in & out of the controller before giving up on it. While the GoPower controller is a bit more conservative than what I'd like, it is a solid product with few failures.

[moenkopi]

Originally Posted by moenkopi

I want to thank everyone who offered advice on my electrical trouble. It really helped clarify things for me as I dealt with two AC units - one trailer, one house - that weren’t working.

It turned out to be the EMS. Once I bypassed that, all the 110V gear came on. I'm still waiting for the fridge to cool off while running on AC. And I’m also waiting to see if the charge controller brings the batteries back up. Any further thoughts are welcome. The idea to bypass the EMS may have saved me a lot of time, as did the suggestion to reset the outside GFI.

Again, thanks so much. This is the first time i’v asked for help here and I have to say i’m impressed!

OK, so it looks like the EMS failure also toasted my Gopower charge controller. I am not a fan of that thing. It failed once already, shortly after we got the trailer, and I’m not sure I want another. I'd prefer an MPPT unit, and if it also had a good battery monitor function (input/output amp monitoring etc). If anyone has replaced the Gopower unit with something better, I’d like to hear your stories. Thanks!

[Iowa Dave]

If our controller failed, I’d get a Victron. Not because I know anything about them but because I have the highest respect for the camping and electrical knowledge of Jon Vermilye. One of the folks I’m proud to say I’ve camped with. And he “turned me on” to Alaskan Amber Ale, a real good beer. Thanks for all your posts Jon.
Iowa Dave

[moenkopi]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

I replaced my GoPower controller with a Victron 100/30. I've been happy with it running either 320 watts of rooftop solar or with the addition of another 160 watts of portable panel.

Still, the failure of the EMS should have nothing to do with the solar controller. There is no connection between them; the EMS is part of the 120V system, while the solar controller is part of the 12V system. Check the connections in & out of the controller before giving up on it. While the GoPower controller is a bit more conservative than what I'd like, it is a solid product with few failures.

Jon, thanks for the recommendation. I have seldom had to use my external panel, and I know they are separate systems. So after trying a soft reset and hard reset I started working backwards, and despite what ETI told me the first time the controller failed, they did indeed have the Zamp port wired bass-ackwards. So I switched the leads and the controller is indeed kaput.. I'm think I will go ahead and get the Victron, and learn the lesson to always check things out for myself.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by moenkopi

Jon, thanks for the recommendation. I have seldom had to use my external panel, and I know they are separate systems. So after trying a soft reset and hard reset I started working backwards, and despite what ETI told me the first time the controller failed, they did indeed have the Zamp port wired bass-ackwards. So I switched the leads and the controller is indeed kaput.. I'm think I will go ahead and get the Victron, and learn the lesson to always check things out for myself.

I know this is a little off subject but did they wire it as a Zamp port or as a SAE solar port?

A Zamp port would have the male (exposed) pin as positive.
A SAE port would have the male (exposed) pin as negative.

Look at the attached pic - that is a SAE solar port and is what is needed for every solar panel made EXCEPT a Zamp panel. Black to male pin - Red to female socket.

If Escape wired it as a Zamp port, is that what you asked for? Every Escape I have helped others figure out why their portable solar panels don't work is because they asked for a Zamp port, that is what Escape did, and it is wired backwards for their non Zamp solar panel.

It's not Escape's fault when they gave you what you asked for. Sorry if this sounds like a rant but people keep referencing the portable solar panel port as a "Zamp" port and then are surprised when it is wired backwards for their standard portable panel.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

I know this is a little off subject but did they wire it as a Zamp port or as a SAE solar port?

A Zamp port would have the male (exposed) pin as positive.
A SAE port would have the male (exposed) pin as negative..

is that on the battery side, or on the solar panel side? because the fundamental problem is, whatever the power is on the battery side, its the opposite on the solar side that plugs into it. this is the big reason I strongly dislike SAE style connectors.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

is that on the battery side, or on the solar panel side? because the fundamental problem is, whatever the power is on the battery side, its the opposite on the solar side that plugs into it. this is the big reason I strongly dislike SAE style connectors.

The SAE standard states that the exposed terminal (pin) connects to the negative terminal of the battery. Conversely, the positive terminal on a battery charger (solar panel) is exposed, to mate with the concealed one (socket) on the vehicle side.

SAE solar ports, which could be connected to either the solar controller or directly to the battery, don’t have the risk of a short circuit even if the unexposed end comes in contact with a ground return - the positive connection is concealed. A lead acid battery has almost unlimited short circuit current and shorting one can lead to melted wires or fire.

A solar panel (ie, battery charger) has limited current capacity and does not present a risk if shorted. The SAE connector from a solar panel has the exposed terminal as positive.

Zamp port polarity violates the SAE standard and should be considered a safety hazard in use. This the reason I keep harping on people who ask for a "Zamp" port on their trailer - very bad idea.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

The SAE standard states that the exposed terminal (pin) connects to the negative terminal of the battery. Conversely, the positive terminal on a battery charger (solar panel) is exposed, to mate with the concealed one (socket) on the vehicle side.

SAE solar ports, which could be connected to either the solar controller or directly to the battery, don’t have the risk of a short circuit even if the unexposed end comes in contact with a ground return - the positive connection is concealed. A lead acid battery has almost unlimited short circuit current and shorting one can lead to melted wires or fire.

A solar panel (ie, battery charger) has limited current capacity and does not present a risk if shorted. The SAE connector from a solar panel has the exposed terminal as positive.

Zamp port polarity violates the SAE standard and should be considered a safety hazard in use. This the reason I keep harping on people who ask for a "Zamp" port on their trailer - very bad idea.

If I was going to add my own solar port for a portable panel what would you suggest? Something like this?
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...ontent=General

[sherminator]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Zamp port polarity violates the SAE standard and should be considered a safety hazard in use. This the reason I keep harping on people who ask for a "Zamp" port on their trailer - very bad idea.

The problem here is that the build sheet supplied by ETI uses the term "Zamp port", with no other reference. I am thankful that I have read here what is going on so I can make sure my wiring gets corrected after I receive my trailer.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

If I was going to add my own solar port for a portable panel what would you suggest? Something like this?
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...ontent=General

That's a Furrion port - good port but not the one usually used for solar.

This is a good one. 10ga wire, SAE standard, and $10.
https://www.amazon.com/CERRXIAN-Weat...9844564&sr=8-2

[Vermilye]

Whether you or ETI installs a ZAMP/SAE port, it is worth checking the polarity of both it and the solar panels / solar controller to be sure they are correct. While there is a standard, in the solar industry it isn't a standard.

Also, if you have an on panel solar controller on your portable panel, check that the trailer connector goes directly to the batteries, not the trailer's controller. A better solution is to put a couple of connectors on the portable solar panel that lets you wire it directly or through the on panel controller. Escape usually connects the SAE connector to the input of the trailer's solar controller, so you need to bypass the one on the panel.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by sherminator

The problem here is that the build sheet supplied by ETI uses the term "Zamp port", with no other reference. I am thankful that I have read here what is going on so I can make sure my wiring gets corrected after I receive my trailer.

You are right - Escape installs Zamp ports instead of SAE solar ports which causes problems for most owners. After reading about your comment about the build sheet, I decided it was time to contact Escape instead of just complaining about the Zamp ports. Well, I received this a little while ago.


Karl Kenny <karl@escapetrailer.com>
1:35 PM (1 hour ago)

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the email. I agree on this one. I will have the team start sourcing and making a change for the future. Zamp port was a hangover from early days with Reace.

Regards,

Karl

Karl Kenny, P.Eng
President

You have just got to love the new Escape!

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

If I was going to add my own solar port for a portable panel what would you suggest? Something like this?
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...ontent=General

I have no idea what the connector used on that is.... My personal preferences for power connectors including charging are Anderson PowerPole, but they aren't weatherproof, so one mounted on the outside of a trailer would HAVE to be behind a waterproof cover. Something like this? https://powerwerx.com/panelpole-pane...erpole-housing
(having two would let you use powerpole's on 12V accessory devices you want to power outside your SUV, like I have a stereo, a 200W 120V inverter, etc, all with powerpole PP30 pigtails.

PP45's take 10 gauge wire and are rated for up to 45 amps. you can plug pp15, pp30, and pp45 connectors together, they only differ in wire gauge (so, for instance, you could use pp45 for the bulkhead connector and AWG10 wire to the batteries, but a 100W solar panel would be fine with pp30 and AWG12 wire).

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

That's a Furrion port - good port but not the one usually used for solar.

This is a good one. 10ga wire, SAE standard, and $10.
https://www.amazon.com/CERRXIAN-Weat...9844564&sr=8-2

Looks like the Furrion port is an LP-20 2-pin connector. There are a variety of adapters available.
https://www.amazon.com/LIXIN-Industr...69349364&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Extractme-Ind...46965137&psc=1

Thoughts? I like the idea of a nice weatherproof port like the Furrion.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I have no idea what the connector used on that is.... My personal preferences for power connectors including charging are Anderson PowerPole, but they aren't weatherproof, so one mounted on the outside of a trailer would HAVE to be behind a waterproof cover. Something like this? https://powerwerx.com/panelpole-pane...erpole-housing
(having two would let you use powerpole's on 12V accessory devices you want to power outside your SUV, like I have a stereo, a 200W 120V inverter, etc, all with powerpole PP30 pigtails.

PP45's take 10 gauge wire and are rated for up to 45 amps. you can plug pp15, pp30, and pp45 connectors together, they only differ in wire gauge (so, for instance, you could use pp45 for the bulkhead connector and AWG10 wire to the batteries, but a 100W solar panel would be fine with pp30 and AWG12 wire).

My personal preference is also the Anderson PowerPole connectors
I had a portable solar panel that I used with our Casita utilizing Anderson PowerPoles and had no issues in over 6 years . If wired properly there is no way to get reversed polarity
They make a solid connection and stand up to abuse