Electrical help needed - no 120V

[moenkopi]

Hi all,[I]
We have a 2019 21’ and recently moved to southern AZ, where it is currently hotter than a $2 pistol. I’ve had it plugged in to 120V 30A and covered for the past 4+ months. Went out today to do some cleaning and could not get the AC to turn on. Further investigation revealed the following:
1) EMS indicator showed a previous E3 (high voltage) but currently E0
2) One of the Transfer switch breakers was tripped.
3) No breakers were tripped in the converter box
4) 12V seemed fine
5) 30A outlet showed proper voltage and polarity
6) No 120V power was available anywhere in the trailer
7) Battery showed about an 82% charge
8) Turned on Inverter, had to reset the GFI
9) Plugged a small lamp into the inverter outlet. It turned on, but after a few seconds the transfer switch started making a staccato machine gun-like noise and the topmost of the three green lights on the inverter turned red. The lamp stayed lit and the red light stayed on.
10) refrigerator will not turn on at all. Lights remain orange.
11) I feel I am currently above my pay grade on this and would appreciate ideas from some of you experts out there.

I should add that while we have had little rain, we have have quite a few electrical storms, with some fairly close strikes. But no electronics in the house appears to have been damaged. Thanks for any and all insights. TIA!

[Ron in BC]

I've never had an EMS system but I was wondering: is there a by-pass switch so that you can take it out of the equation?

Ron

[steve dunham]

On our Escape 21 EMS there is a bypass switch - located on the face of the EMS

[Vermilye]

There is a bypass switch for the EMS, but the chattering sound sounds like the electronics has failed. The bypass switch may not work under those conditions. If it was me & I was desperate for the AC, I'd bypass the EMS by disconnecting the input & output wiring & splice them together.

On edit - if the transfer switch is what was chattering, not the relay in the EMS, using the bypass switch may still work...

[moenkopi]

Yes thanks for that advice. The bypass switch does not work either. I meant to add that to my post, but forgot.

[C&G in FL]

Mark, did you check every single 120v outlet in the trailer? If the EMS indicator/display is working, then ac current is getting at least as far as the EMS. There is a GFCI outlet on the outside of the trailer which controls several of the internal outlets. It may have tripped. Just a thought, but if you only checked outlets further down the line on this circuit it could seem as if all ac is not working. If you have a microwave is the LCD display active? And you didn’t mention A/C. If you have one, did you try it?

[moenkopi]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

There is a bypass switch for the EMS, but the chattering sound sounds like the electronics has failed. The bypass switch may not work under those conditions. If it was me & I was desperate for the AC, I'd bypass the EMS by disconnecting the input & output wiring & splice them together.

On edit - if the transfer switch is what was chattering, not the relay in the EMS, using the bypass switch may still work...

Jon, I’m pretty sure it was the switch itself, the metal box mounted just behind the converter, if I have identified it correctly. I’m not sure where to begin troubleshooting, will try to call ETI tomorrow.

[moenkopi]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Mark, did you check every single 120v outlet in the trailer? If the EMS indicator/display is working, then ac current is getting at least as far as the EMS. There is a GFCI outlet on the outside of the trailer which controls several of the internal outlets. It may have tripped. Just a thought, but if you only checked outlets further down the line on this circuit it could seem as if all ac is not working. If you have a microwave is the LCD display active? And you didn’t mention A/C. If you have one, did you try it?

Good suggestion, I will check the outside GFI in the morning. But the AC is not working, which is what started me down this path, and no display on microwave, I’m not feeling super optimistic at this point.

[rubicon327]

My guess is a bad EMS. First though I would double check all your breakers in the power center by positively engaging them to OFF and then back ON. I’ve seen breakers that were tripped that didn’t appear to be by their position.

[John in Santa Cruz]

my official progmisis at 12:30am is... BAD JUJU.

you need a high wizard of electrical voodoo to discombulate your systems and get all that smoke back into the wires where it belongs.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by moenkopi

Good suggestion, I will check the outside GFI in the morning. But the AC is not working, which is what started me down this path, and no display on microwave, I’m not feeling super optimistic at this point.

If the A/C is not working, then it likely is not the outside GFCI outlet as it does not control the A/C which is on its own circuit.

Originally Posted by rubicon327

My guess is a bad EMS. First though I would double check all your breakers in the power center by positively engaging them to OFF and then back ON. I’ve seen breakers that were tripped that didn’t appear to be by their position.

Given what you stated above, I would now tend to agree with this diagnosis. You mentioned electrical storms. Electronic items can be fried by nearby lightning strikes. My tow vehicle is a 2020 F-150, which replaced a 2015 F-150 that was the victim of EMP from lightning striking a tree 21-feet from where the truck was parked. It jumped to the nearby underground phone landline which ran parallel to the truck 9 feet away, and blew the phone interface on the side of the house apart. EMP can do a lot of damage.

[padlin]

Give Progressive Industries a call, they can walk you thru checking out the EMS.
Technical Support
Phone: 1-800-307-6702 press 2

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

My guess is a bad EMS.

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

[Given what you stated above, I would now tend to agree with this diagnosis. You mentioned electrical storms. Electronic items can be fried by nearby lightning strikes.

An EMS protector circuit damaged by a surge is supposed to show an E10 code.

Moenkopi: Is the time time delay indicator (small red light) flashing on the display screen?

[steve dunham]

i

Originally Posted by moenkopi

Hi all,[I]
We have a 2019 21’ and recently moved to southern AZ, where it is currently hotter than a $2 pistol. I’ve had it plugged in to 120V 30A and covered for the past 4+ months. Went out today to do some cleaning and could not get the AC to turn on. Further investigation revealed the following:
1) EMS indicator showed a previous E3 (high voltage) but currently E0
2) One of the Transfer switch breakers was tripped.
3) No breakers were tripped in the converter box
4) 12V seemed fine
5) 30A outlet showed proper voltage and polarity
6) No 120V power was available anywhere in the trailer
7) Battery showed about an 82% charge
8) Turned on Inverter, had to reset the GFI
9) Plugged a small lamp into the inverter outlet. It turned on, but after a few seconds the transfer switch started making a staccato machine gun-like noise and the topmost of the three green lights on the inverter turned red. The lamp stayed lit and the red light stayed on.
10) refrigerator will not turn on at all. Lights remain orange.
11) I feel I am currently above my pay grade on this and would appreciate ideas from some of you experts out there.

I should add that while we have had little rain, we have have quite a few electrical storms, with some fairly close strikes. But no electronics in the house appears to have been damaged. Thanks for any and all insights. TIA!

Just a few questions

1 ) According to the OP the trailer has been sitting for 4 months in storage - “plugged in” yet the battery is at 80% —Why ?
2) Is this a chain reaction ?
IE ; Is the EMS screwed up ( bad relay ? ) so that the converter is not getting proper voltage from the EMS and the converter battery charger cannot keep the battery fully charged ?
3) Is the problem with the inverter an internal inverter issue or low DC input voltage ?
4 ) The issues with the refrigerator may be nothing more than low DC voltage —The refrigerator does have a low voltage cutout


I doubt everything failed all at once — I like Jon’s idea , splice out the line and load wires on the EMS main relay and eliminate the EMS from the circuit . Personally I think the factory EMS is a waste of money and a disaster / failure waiting to happen but I digress.
I would also split the repairs into separate segments , Get the 120 VAC utility power working first so that the converter is powered and the battery gets fully charged and then work on the inverter issues

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by moenkopi

9) Plugged a small lamp into the inverter outlet. It turned on, but after a few seconds the transfer switch started making a staccato machine gun-like noise and the topmost of the three green lights on the inverter turned red. The lamp stayed lit and the red light stayed on.

Originally Posted by steve dunham

3) Is the problem with the inverter an internal inverter issue or low DC input voltage ?

Good thing to check Steve. If the OP has the Go Power inverter (GP-ISW-1500?) the red light coming on solid on the battery LED means it is below 11 volts.

[Vermilye]

If the EMS was working but the transfer switch was bad you would still be able to operate the appliances that are wired to the WFCO breaker panel, ie AC, water heater, etc. The only thing that wouldn't work would be the receptacles.

I suspect the chatter, if it was the transfer switch, was caused by a low battery - the inverter shutting off & on. I still suspect the overall problem is the EMS, and would check it by wiring across it. If you have a volt meter & want to check before pulling the wires, open the cover on the EMS. The input & output connections to the contractor (relay) are obvious & if you have 120V going in, but nothing coming out, that should identify the problem.

If there is 120V on the output of the relay in the EMS, check the wiring & connections to the WFCO panel, including the 30/15 amp breaker that is the main for the panel. Also check that the neutral connection is tight.

[moenkopi]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

my official progmisis at 12:30am is... BAD JUJU.

you need a high wizard of electrical voodoo to discombulate your systems and get all that smoke back into the wires where it belongs.

John,
No kidding! Searching for a wizard as we speak!

[moenkopi]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

If the EMS was working but the transfer switch was bad you would still be able to operate the appliances that are wired to the WFCO breaker panel, ie AC, water heater, etc. The only thing that wouldn't work would be the receptacles.

I suspect the chatter, if it was the transfer switch, was caused by a low battery - the inverter shutting off & on. I still suspect the overall problem is the EMS, and would check it by wiring across it. If you have a volt meter & want to check before pulling the wires, open the cover on the EMS. The input & output connections to the contractor (relay) are obvious & if you have 120V going in, but nothing coming out, that should identify the problem.

If there is 120V on the output of the relay in the EMS, check the wiring & connections to the WFCO panel, including the 30/15 amp breaker that is the main for the panel. Also check that the neutral connection is tight.

Thanks Jon, I will do that today if I can get to it and updat. Appreciate the help.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

An EMS protector circuit damaged by a surge is supposed to show an E10 code.

Moenkopi: Is the time time delay indicator (small red light) flashing on the display screen?

The key words are “supposed to show.” Unfortunately, things do not always perform the way they are supposed to perform.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

The key words are “supposed to show.” Unfortunately, things do not always perform the way they are supposed to perform.

As a mechanical engineer don't I know that well!