Electrical Knowledge-Challenged

[LRL]

My E23 has 4 Lithium batteries. When using my Hybrid F150 as a generator to run the AC, power constantly shuts off after the AC ramps up fully, and I get a message from the electrical management system that there's an "inverter overload" and the system shuts down completely. After a few moments, it resets itself, and repeats the process over again. I'm not even sure why the inverter would be involved, since I'm running on external electricity. This does not seem to happen when I'm running on shore power - either using a 110 power cord or 30A connection.



There are no error messages or faults showing on the EMS readout.



Any thoughts as to what might be the issue here? Thanks in advance for your help, as always!

[Centex]

Your F150 is a PowerBoost with the 7.2kW Pro-Power system, is that correct? Noting that is actually a 7.2kW inverter powered from the PowerBoost's high-voltage hybrid battery, not a true 'generator'. The PowerBoost's internal combustion engine cycles on/off based on the _SOC State Of Charge) of the high-voltage hybrid battery when Pro-Power is in use.

Does there seem to be any correlation between the trailer issue and the PowerBoost engine cycling on/off?

Is your trailer equipped with a Victron MultiPlus, and if yes, what model (12|2000|80, 12|3000|120, etc)?

If you have a MultiPlus, I suspect something is amiss with the PowerControl or PowerAssist settings (both bear on the transition from external 120VAC power to internal battery power / inverter load) and would focus on those areas for troubleshooting.

[LRL]

Correct about the Power Boost details. There is no relationship between the engine powering on/off and the trailer Inverter overloading. What happens is that the AC turns on fan only initially, then after a few minutes… or a minute… it audibly changes and I believe begins to cool. That’s invariably when the inverter overloads.

Yes to MultiPlus… will check numbers next time I’m at the trailer and get back to you.

And thank you!

[7Gentex]

Agree on the MultiPluss side for a focus, but.....

What / how are you plugged into the F-150?

Usually, you can only access 3,600 watts / 30 amps from such (one 120v leg / bank) if you are using the 240v receptacle and an adapter.

If you are using the trucks 120v receptacles - you are limited to 15 or 20 amps.........which ought to be enough if your trailer system IS NOT trying to charge the batts, or some other high draw loads, at the same time....


Or.............

[Centex]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

.... If you are using the trucks 120v receptacles - you are limited to 15 or 20 amps.........which ought to be enough if your trailer system IS NOT trying to charge the batts, or some other high draw loads, at the same time....

Just noting that the MultiPlus' Power Control & PowerAssist features are intended to mix / supplement both external 120VAC power and battery power to meet 120VAC demands. But perhaps you understand that.

Part of that sophisticated system is 'dynamically' limiting battery charging to make power available for meeting those other demands (within some limits determined by the MultiPlus' configuration, controlling algorithms, and ultimate capacity).

Full disclosure - I do not own a MultiPlus, just intensively studied the Victron website, blog, and available literature / manuals before deciding it was not the best option for me (YMMV). So, my contribution to this thread is likely at its end

Still, I'm following with interest to learn, wishing the OP Good Luck!

[LRL]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Agree on the MultiPluss side for a focus, but.....

What / how are you plugged into the F-150?

Usually, you can only access 3,600 watts / 30 amps from such (one 120v leg / bank) if you are using the 240v receptacle and an adapter.

If you are using the trucks 120v receptacles - you are limited to 15 or 20 amps.........which ought to be enough if your trailer system IS NOT trying to charge the batts, or some other high draw loads, at the same time....


Or.............

I’ve actually done it with both; the 120 receptacle and the 240 with an adaptor. Same result. Most recently using the adaptor just to be sure. From shore power, 120 powers the AC just fine.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Centex

Just noting that the MultiPlus' Power Control & PowerAssist features are intended to mix / supplement both external 120VAC power and battery power to meet 120VAC demands. But perhaps you understand that............

Kinda................

Was thinking that if he was not "flowing" enough AC power in (120v 15/20 amp only tap on the F-150) that the inverter was getting overloaded with .....................something!

Appears not though as he states he used the 240v receptacle with an adapter as well with the same results.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by LRL

My E23 has 4 Lithium batteries. When using my Hybrid F150 as a generator to run the AC, power constantly shuts off after the AC ramps up fully, and I get a message from the electrical management system that there's an "inverter overload" and the system shuts down completely. After a few moments, it resets itself, and repeats the process over again. I'm not even sure why the inverter would be involved, since I'm running on external electricity. This does not seem to happen when I'm running on shore power - either using a 110 power cord or 30A connection.

There are no error messages or faults showing on the EMS readout.

Any thoughts as to what might be the issue here? Thanks in advance for your help, as always!

FWIW, I have a 3000VA Multiplus in my 21C and use it to run my Coleman Mach 10 AC unit on batteries and/or 15A generator power.



Keep in mind that starting an AC unit is a challenging thing to do on an inverter. The startup current can easily be 50-60 amps for a 12,000 btu AC unit. Unless you've changed something, the Multiplus will try to combine shore and battery power to meet the starting load of the AC unit.



Here are few things to try:
1. If you haven't already, try running the AC just on battery power. This sounds like a strange thing to do - but the multiplus can actually get a bit "confused" when starting a heavy load with certain types of shore power. This would help determine if that's the problem.

2. Set your multiplus in "charge only" mode. This isn't actually "charge only" - it's actually more like "inverter bypass". In this mode, the multiplus will directly pass input power through to the output, and run the charger. In this mode, all of the power needed to start your AC will come from the F-150.

3. Try "dialing down" the input current limit on your multiplus from 30A (which I'm assuming is what it's currently set to) to a lower setting, like 15A.


Any idea what gauge wire Escape used from the battery bank to the Multiplus? For the 3000VA, Victron recommends 4/0 wire or equivalent. Escape wiring is notoriously crappy, so I wouldn't be surprised if they used much smaller wire - and that could be part of the problem.

[LRL]

Originally Posted by hugh

FWIW, I have a 3000VA Multiplus in my 21C and use it to run my Coleman Mach 10 AC unit on batteries and/or 15A generator power.



Keep in mind that starting an AC unit is a challenging thing to do on an inverter. The startup current can easily be 50-60 amps for a 12,000 btu AC unit. Unless you've changed something, the Multiplus will try to combine shore and battery power to meet the starting load of the AC unit.



Here are few things to try:
1. If you haven't already, try running the AC just on battery power. This sounds like a strange thing to do - but the multiplus can actually get a bit "confused" when starting a heavy load with certain types of shore power. This would help determine if that's the problem.

2. Set your multiplus in "charge only" mode. This isn't actually "charge only" - it's actually more like "inverter bypass". In this mode, the multiplus will directly pass input power through to the output, and run the charger. In this mode, all of the power needed to start your AC will come from the F-150.

3. Try "dialing down" the input current limit on your multiplus from 30A (which I'm assuming is what it's currently set to) to a lower setting, like 15A.


Any idea what gauge wire Escape used from the battery bank to the Multiplus? For the 3000VA, Victron recommends 4/0 wire or equivalent. Escape wiring is notoriously crappy, so I wouldn't be surprised if they used much smaller wire - and that could be part of the problem.

Thank you for all your suggestions. I have indeed run it on battery only, and it works fine. And I had no idea that “charger only” would give AC power to the trailer’s components when plugged in to shore power. When set to “off,” that is not the case. So I’ve been leaving it set to “on,” thinking that I needed to do that to distribute AC power. That may indeed be my problem! I’ll check and get back to you.

I have no idea about wire gauge.

I have worked on the current limit and have done as you suggest, setting it to 20 rather than 30. That made no difference.

[LRL]

I’ve added a few photos of my control panel and display panel… if this helps.

[LRL]

I have an extra-credit, unrelated, question. The unit shown in the attached photo is located under the bed, on the opposite end of the trailer from the batteries and all the other electrical components. Any idea what it is doing?

[SRS]

Originally Posted by LRL

I have an extra-credit, unrelated, question. The unit shown in the attached photo is located under the bed, on the opposite end of the trailer from the batteries and all the other electrical components. Any idea what it is doing?

It controls the current from your tow vehicle so lithium batteries can't destroy your alternator. I have one installed but it doesn't allow much power through due to resistance because of distance from the alternator and wire gauge. And my F-150 is a power hog and has significant electrical demands. You should see it in your Victron connect app. I only see it when my engine is running and my truck has decided to divert some juice. I often get a message in my instrument cluster saying the trailer isn't being charged when I first start my TV.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by LRL

I have an extra-credit, unrelated, question. The unit shown in the attached photo is located under the bed, on the opposite end of the trailer from the batteries and all the other electrical components. Any idea what it is doing?

That's a "DC to DC" charger. It takes the 12VDC power from your tow vehicle (via the 7 pin connector) and uses it to charge your Lithium batteries.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by LRL

Thank you for all your suggestions. I have indeed run it on battery only, and it works fine. And I had no idea that “charger only” would give AC power to the trailer’s components when plugged in to shore power. When set to “off,” that is not the case. So I’ve been leaving it set to “on,” thinking that I needed to do that to distribute AC power. That may indeed be my problem! I’ll check and get back to you.

I have no idea about wire gauge.

I have worked on the current limit and have done as you suggest, setting it to 20 rather than 30. That made no difference.

If it runs fine completely on batteries, then I'm guessing the wire gauge is thick enough.


i wonder if you've got an older firmware version on your Multiplus that's a bit "buggy".


if you go the list of devices then select your Multiplus, scroll down and select the "Device" menu option, and then scroll down again. you should be able to see your firmware version. (see attached screenshots) If you can, let me know what firmware version you have installed.

[LRL]

Originally Posted by hugh

If it runs fine completely on batteries, then I'm guessing the wire gauge is thick enough.


i wonder if you've got an older firmware version on your Multiplus that's a bit "buggy".


if you go the list of devices then select your Multiplus, scroll down and select the "Device" menu option, and then scroll down again. you should be able to see your firmware version. (see attached screenshots) If you can, let me know what firmware version you have installed.

Will do that tomorrow. In the meantime, I realize that the problem has most likely been that I’ve left the Inverter “on” when running shore power, because when I switched to the “off” position, nothing worked. It hadn’t occurred to me to use the “battery only” position… which appears to allow shore power to do all the work.

And thanks all for answering the mystery extra credit question!

[hugh]

Originally Posted by LRL

Will do that tomorrow. In the meantime, I realize that the problem has most likely been that I’ve left the Inverter “on” when running shore power, because when I switched to the “off” position, nothing worked. It hadn’t occurred to me to use the “battery only” position… which appears to allow shore power to do all the work.

And thanks all for answering the mystery extra credit question!

No problem. FWIW, everthing should work in the on position. But I'm guessing some weird interaction between the F-150 power output and the multiplus causes a current spike in the multiplus when the AC kicks in.

[LRL]

Originally Posted by hugh

If it runs fine completely on batteries, then I'm guessing the wire gauge is thick enough.


i wonder if you've got an older firmware version on your Multiplus that's a bit "buggy".


if you go the list of devices then select your Multiplus, scroll down and select the "Device" menu option, and then scroll down again. you should be able to see your firmware version. (see attached screenshots) If you can, let me know what firmware version you have installed.

OK. Here’s what I’ve got for Firmware: v4.16

[hugh]

Well, the good news is that your firmware is up to date. The bad news is that "4.16" is the firmware version for your smart shunt, not the multiplus.


Each device has a separate firmware, so make sure you select the "multiplus" device from the device list when checking the firmware.

[LRL]

Originally Posted by hugh

Well, the good news is that your firmware is up to date. The bad news is that "4.16" is the firmware version for your smart shunt, not the multiplus.


Each device has a separate firmware, so make sure you select the "multiplus" device from the device list when checking the firmware.

Dang! OK. It may take me a day or two. But I will check and get back to you. Thanks again!

[hugh]

Originally Posted by LRL

Dang! OK. It may take me a day or two. But I will check and get back to you. Thanks again!

No worries, and of course no rush. FWIW, this is just narrow down the list of possible issues. If your Multiplus firmware is up to date, then that's one less thing that could be causing the problem.


And if it is out of date, it's actually a bit tricky to fix, because you need some specialized software to do so.


Hugh