Electrical problem - new for me

[JeffO4297]

Hi all,
I have an electrical issue that is new to me. I went out to plug in my Escape 19 for some winter heaters. It has been basically sitting for only about 3 weeks since our last trip.
When I plugged in pretty much nothing happened. Also no power inside. After a few minutes the solar panel kicked on with a beep and showed low batteries. At the same time the AC monitor showed normal E 0 but there was an additional PE 4 note that came up.
Is this just a case of low batteries?
It seems not really likely since we used the trailer recently, but there has not been much sun
Escape 19 2017
Solar panel
double battery


Update; I changed the bypass EMS switch to off and internal electricity came on. The solar monitor now shows about 14. kw charge



Thanks

JeffO

[rubicon327]

When plugging in the EMS has a 2 min 16 sec delay as default before allowing power into the trailer beyond the EMS. Only if you have internal jumper installed would it be 15 sec. PE4 was previous error 4 which indicates a low voltage condition that was resolved and E0 means normal operating condition. You shouldn’t need to bypass the EMS unless there is an issue with your power source. Sounds like you have everything under control now?

[JeffO4297]

Rats, actually no.
I went out a little while ago and nothing was working through the EMS. The solar panel still said 50% but the EMS panel was dark.
I tried the switch in both positions with no change. I also tried unplugging and then plugging back in - no change.


Update; GFI at the plug in needed to be reset (?) When I did that the EMS is back alive but no interior lights or solar screen.
I'll wait and see if it needs to charge batteries or something.


Update 2...batteries seem to be charging with the PE4 still flashing. The interior lights seem to work on battery but the AC plug ins don't

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by JeffO4297

Rats, actually no.
I went out a little while ago and nothing was working through the EMS. The solar panel still said 50% but the EMS panel was dark.
I tried the switch in both positions with no change. I also tried unplugging and then plugging back in - no change.

Update; GFI at the plug in needed to be reset (?) When I did that the EMS is back alive but no interior lights or solar screen.
I'll wait and see if it needs to charge batteries or something.

Update 2...batteries seem to be charging with the PE4 still flashing. The interior lights seem to work on battery but the AC plug ins don't

This sounds strange. If the EMS is letting 120V AC power into the trailer you should have full functionality of all systems. The 120V power directly feeds everything fed out of the WFCO breaker box and it also goes to the converter to produce 12V DC to simultaneously charge the batteries as well as provide power to all lights, DC outlets, furnace, etc. This should happen regardless of the state of the battery and solar system. Have you checked all the breakers? Also if you have the inverter that serves all outlets you will have two breakers in a gray sub panel that need to be checked. Also some of the 120V outlets are fed through the GFCI outlet on the exterior of the trailer or some models may also have one inside near the galley so check to make sure they haven’t tripped.

I have no idea why the solar screen would be blank.

[JeffO4297]

So, first, thanks for putting up with my rookie ramblings. This is our first trailer and even though I feel pretty handy, electricity is not my strong suit.
I checked the brown panel and did not find any breakers or obvious fuses blown. I checked the GFI plug in - on the outside of our 19 - and reset it. It didn't click which makes me think it wasn't tripped.
The ESM panel remains with the PE4 message. Every so often there is a click, followed by a fan running in the breaker panel, followed within a few seconds by a second click and then the fan shuts down.
No shore power at this point but interior lights work. Also I cycled on the water pump and it did run but seemed slow.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by JeffO4297

So, first, thanks for putting up with my rookie ramblings. This is our first trailer and even though I feel pretty handy, electricity is not my strong suit.
I checked the brown panel and did not find any breakers or obvious fuses blown. I checked the GFI plug in - on the outside of our 19 - and reset it. It didn't click which makes me think it wasn't tripped.
The ESM panel remains with the PE4 message. Every so often there is a click, followed by a fan running in the breaker panel, followed within a few seconds by a second click and then the fan shuts down.
No shore power at this point but interior lights work. Also I cycled on the water pump and it did run but seemed slow.

Try plugging a 120v device (hair dryer, etc.) into one of the outlets and see if it works. The cooling fan running in the breaker panel indicates that the converter is getting 120v power.

Ignore the PE4 - if it bothers you, unplug the trailer from shore power, wait a few minutes, then plug the trailer back in. The PE4 should clear.

From the Progressive Industries manual:
If the EMS cuts the power to the RV, it will show a PE code following the E code. This denotes a previous error or why the EMS shut down.

Example: The EMS cuts power for low voltage on Line 1, and then the power is restored. The error code reads E0 but the PE code reads PE4 which tells the user that low voltage was the reason for the EMS previously cutting the power. This PE error code will be deleted when power is disconnected from the EMS.

[JeffO4297]

Thanks for that info. One of the reasons that I think the shore power is not getting through is that the fan and inside heater that I had in the trailer did not run. I have periodically tried the fan in different plug ins and don't get any power. I also checked GFI plug on outside of trailer and it didn't need reset.
I've disconnected power twice and still get the error message. It has only been a month since the trailer was last used so I'm surprised the batteries appear to be drained.
Since the shore power did not appear to be doing anything to charge the batteries, and since the panel keeps cycling on and off, I've now disconnected the shore power in case it is damaging something.

[rubicon327]

So it sounds like your lights and pump are working off a partially charged battery. If the EMS keeps shutting off there may be a problem with the circuit you are plugged into. Do you have a multimeter so you can test to ensure the house outlet you are plugging into has adequate voltage and is wired correctly? Or maybe if by chance you are using a long, undersized extension cord you could be getting a large voltage drop and thus the (P)E4 error once under load with converter trying to charge the batteries and your heaters plugged in?

These are your friends:
https://www.harborfreight.com/11-fun...yABEgIyHvD_BwE
https://www.amazon.com/Receptacle-Te...HX5VG9EDQS3H99

[JeffO4297]

Now that is an interesting thought. The plug in is relatively new but wired by a professional. I am using a 100' extension cord 16/3 to get to the trailer.
The heater is a very low voltage heater that just emits a small amount of heat....not a big draw. It is now unplugged and no shore power goes through. The plug in icon is visible in the solar panel display.
Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter.

Sounds like I may have to get one


Update; I traded out the 100' 16/3 with two shorter and more robust 50' chords. Same result using a different house plug in

[Centex]

Originally Posted by JeffO4297

I am using a 100' extension cord 16/3 to get to the trailer.
....
Update; I traded out the 100' 16/3 with two shorter and more robust 50' chords. Same result using a different house plug in

No idea of the amp loads you're imposing with heaters, converter/charger, etc but at only 7 amps your pushing the typical desired limit of 5% voltage drop with 16/3 @ 100'.

Not sure what "more robust" means in terms of wire gauge but multiple connectors usually introduces more voltage drop / reduced overall ampacity.

Just for your consideration, might be contributing to your issues

voltage drop calculator

Yes, a multimeter would be a useful tool IMO, very inexpensive instant gratification at Lowes, HD, even local Harbor Freight if you have one.

[JeffO4297]

Right now there are no loads as I took out the trailer heater when I realized that I had no shore power. The only load would be the fan when I turn it on.
No loads, except possibly for the microwave but it shows no power (red dots or any other indicator on the screen)

[Centex]

Originally Posted by JeffO4297

Right now there are no loads as I took out the trailer heater when I realized that I had no shore power. The only load would be the fan when I turn it on.

So you've bypassed / turned off your trailer's standard power converter / battery charger for this 'test'?

[padlin]

I'd turn off all the breakers and try it. Just see if the EMS will stay on without being in bypass.

[Centex]

I'd make that run to Lowes / HD (or even Walmart), grab a cheap multimeter, read thrice the instructions focusing on measuring AC voltage and all safety warnings, then starting at the house outlet measure and note voltage at every connection along the way to an outlet in the trailer (e.g. house outlet, end of extension cord, EMS output, outlet in the trailer).

IMO it's very frustrating attempting to diagnose such issues lacking a tool to quantify the situation.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by JeffO4297

Now that is an interesting thought. The plug in is relatively new but wired by a professional. I am using a 100' extension cord 16/3 to get to the trailer.
The heater is a very low voltage heater that just emits a small amount of heat....not a big draw. It is now unplugged and no shore power goes through. The plug in icon is visible in the solar panel display.
Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter.

Sounds like I may have to get one


Update; I traded out the 100' 16/3 with two shorter and more robust 50' chords. Same result using a different house plug in

With most GoPower solar controllers the plug icon indicates that the inverter is on. If you have one, that will pull down the batteries - it draws as much as an amp & a half even without loads. If you were running the electric heater on the inverter that would definitely draw down the batteries and put a heavy load on the converter.

The 100' 16/3 cord is definitely not large enough for any serious loads on the trailer. The heavier cord might help. You really need to measure the voltage to be sure.

Bob (padlin's) suggestion of turning off all the breakers to see if the EMS stays on is a good one. The converter alone could be drawing enough to cause the low voltage if the cords to the trailer are still dropping too much voltage.

If the EMS stays on with all the breakers off, try switching on the main. If the EMS still stays on, try switching on the converter breaker. If it shuts down, the cord is probably still too long or small. Try opening the battery disconnect switch to take the charging load off the converter to see if the remaining 120V & 12V stuff still works. The converter should be able to power the rest of the trailer with the battery disconnect open.

If the EMS shuts down with all the breakers off, I'd suspect it or the wiring between the trailer plug & the converter. Don't forget the 2 minute delay the EMS produces each time you plug in...

[John in Santa Cruz]

100 ft is a LONG cable run for a 10+ amp load... typical electric heater is 1500 watts, which is about 12-13 amps, and your DC converter is going to draw even more on top of that if you're running much stuff on 12VDC or charging a run down battery.

I would find a contractor grade 100 ft extension cord thats /rated/ for 15 amps. That should be at LEAST 12/3, and 10/3 would be better. yes, these are $100+ extension cords. Something like this,
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DUROMAX-...100A/302795507

also watch out for off brand stuff from the likes of Amazon and Ebay, I've bought wire on amazon or whatever that was supposed to be '10 gauge' but when I got it, it wasn't even AWG12, was more like AWG13, and the chinese vendor made some excuse like "OH, this is CHINESE 10 gauge, not AWG 10." well, there's no such thing, unless they just mean BOGUS 10 gauge. I do note that above wire does NOT say AWG 10, so I dunno. DEFINITELY avoid anything that is aluminum wire, or copper plated aluminum, these may be advertised as "30% lighter!".

THIS wire is made-in-USA AWG 12/3, also rated for 15 amps, maybe thats a better way to go. https://www.homedepot.com/p/100-ft-1...0USW/315214763

[JeffO4297]

Thanks everybody for chipping in. In the interest of clarity, the heater was not plugged in prior to this. It is a very small winter drying heater that claims to not draw any more than a standard light bulb.
I will turn off all the breakers and leave the EMS on to see if I get shore power to the trailer again. It also looks like a few more tools are in my future - not necessarily a bad thing


Update; I turned all of the breakers to off and plugged in. No error or PE notes show. When the power kicked in there was no difference. I put the converter breaker to ON and nothing happened.
After a few minutes I put the plug breakers to ON. The little fan worked.
Battery #1 is at 8% I'll monitor tonight to see if it is charging.

[Eggscape]

Not sure if you ordered the dual heat water heater but if so make sure the power switch is turned off on it as well.

[padlin]

What are the readings on the EMS panel?

[JeffO4297]

Update; With all the breaker switches in the off position the EMS panel was reading normally E0/122 etc....I waited several hours and then turned on the breakers, at which point the EMS panel clicked into another mode and turned on the PE4 note.
So I turned off all the breakers except the top two, which I believe are main and inverter/fridge.
It now seems to show a charging battery, which was not happening before