Escape 21 Cold Weather Achilles Heel

[alanmalk]

12v heat tape is an option for a night or two. Battery drain is not as bad as the 12v pads that are optional for the fresh and grey tanks.

I did this on my unit but have not put it to the test.

And, as others have mentioned, pex pipe is not as likely to burst as pvc.

--
Alan

[Brian B-P]

Lines run outside and insulated could be bundled together so that the hot water keeps the cold water from freezing, although the hot water would need to be run occasionally for this to work (which means keeping water in the fresh tank).

Of course if at a site serviced with power, heat tracing tape could be used to prevent freezing in both lines - that's what it is for. Heat-traced pipes need to be insulated.

Originally Posted by huskersteffy

As far as running the CW/HW lines some other way across the back side through the dinette: You'd have to run HW line all the way back to the the driver side dinette seat from the HW heater under the bed.

Not quite. In the current 21' body style (not the original) the lines could run across the trailer above the floor just in front of the step up to the dinette, as a few people have mentioned. Of course this requires extending the raised floor forward just enough to cover the pipes (using something custom-built or that clever dock bumper moulding that Ed showed), and working out the routing in and out of the cabinets on each side. This would be a particularly good combination with the underfloor foam, because it would place the pipes entirely on the inside (warm side) of the foam, not embedded in the foam.

My old Boler has essentially the same situation as the Escape 21', and the water lines just run all the way around the back (under what is essentially the same as the U-shaped dinette.

If running these lines inside, I think that the hot line should be insulated to keep the water hot to the faucet, and the cold line should not be insulated so it stays closer to inside temperature in cold weather.

[cpaharley2008]

another option is install a low point drain on both lines, makes emptying easier.

[tdf-texas]

Cover the PEX with split foam from a hardware store. Freezing is the least of your problems as PEX should never be exposed to UV light. It causes it to harden and split under pressure.

https://www.doityourself.com/stry/ho...ed-to-sunlight

I hate to be a horses a## about this but Escape should know better than to run PEX like this. Sure, it "may" not split during warranty but it will inevitably fail and when it does, it will not be a easy fix on the road to get the water system back to working.

I have my PEX covered with foam tubing from as soon as I got the trailer home from Chilliwack so it's not really an issue to me if Escape keeps installing exposed PEX. Also, I shouldn't keep harping on this as I have already been told that I'm a troublemaker for pointing out stuff but I care about people and don't want to see them go through tribulations that they shouldn't have to deal with.

Please, cover the PEX with $3 of foam tubing and be happy that the PEX cracking will not be an issue you have to deal with.

[cpaharley2008]

Perhaps the foam option has been protecting it since 2014...

[huskersteffy]

Cover the PEX with split foam from a hardware store. Freezing is the least of your problems as PEX should never be exposed to UV light. It causes it to harden and split under pressure.

Good point. Had not thought about UV degradation. This really is a bad design since UV can reflect off of pavement to the underside of the trailer. Also, the section that runs north/south along the passenger side of the grey tank is directly exposed to sunlight.

[Rrgramps]

Originally Posted by huskersteffy

A 21 without the lounge seating setup has no direct means of crossing the inside of the cabin from the driver to passenger side. Running exposed across the bath then across the top of the door then down to the sink is a possibility but it would look pretty horrible.

I’m a bit late, but my old Casita ran its water and electricity between both dinette benches. The Spirit Deluxe has a slanted board over the wiring/plumbing runs. The rear dinette has a small rectangular wooden box, covering up the runs.

Regardless, a camper left out in sub zero weather can freeze on the inside anyway. Except if heat is on, hahah.

[dfandrews]

Going back to your original parameters: over night freeze but higher than freezing temps daytime: Water has a high specific heat (i.e. heat capacity), so it takes some effort to freeze. With Jon's idea ( - I'd want the side at the floor open to the heat inside the trailer. Maybe cutting it in half lengthwise & gluing it to the trailer might help.) you're reduce your exposure to those freezing temps., and IMHO, would not have a problem with freezing lines. Run water for your morning coffee, and check its temperature out of the faucet to get an idea of what to expect.

[Andy B]

Hi,
We have a 2016 21 Classic we picked up on March 14th. We only camp in the fall and spring. Our normal trip is Northern Michigan to Portland Or. We have spent many nights below 32 f. Many in the 22/24 degree range. No problems so far...

I have insulated the u shaped dinette seat locker floors and the floor under the bed with 1 inch rigid foam. I raised the dinette floor three inches with rigid foam wrapped in trunk liner material. We also carpeted our floor. Makes everything warmer and the pipes under-body cooler. Still no freezing.. so far...

We do run the furnace. Cold windy nights in exposed sites do worry me.
I am considering snap on modesty skirting to retain heat.

We are currently in Portland, Hi Dorothy!!, We had five nights well below 32 on this trip and some snow. The new warmer inside 21 was great.

Andy, Mary D., Joey and
Chicadee

[DenverRTC]

Why not contact ETI and request a quote to have heaters and foam added now.

We have a 2013 E19 and ETI has quoted a price for retrofit of heaters and foam. All they asked was to allow about a month to get into their schedule.