Escape 21 or 19, help wanted.

[Chris & Patricia]

We currently have a 2017 17B, but very close to putting in an order to upgrade to a 21. Before we pull the trigger, does anyone have some good reasons why we should choose a 19 instead of a 21.

For the options we would want, there isn’t a huge difference in price (about C$ $1,000) nor is there a huge difference in weight (about 300lbs). The extra length would give us quite a lot of extra space especially for longer trips.

But we do know that Escape owners will often point things out that we hadn’t considered. So all thoughts appreciated, with thanks.

[John in Santa Cruz]

my wife definitely preferred the 21 over the 19... the longitudinal queen bed in front, the U dinette in back, and the bigger kitchen area in the middle were all win-win features. we love the propane oven, and have yet to use the microwave.

[padlin]

Things may have changed with the new body style but I always looked at it like the 21 with it's extra weight and larger front end profile exposed to airflow required a bigger TV, or at least a bigger engine, to pull it at highway speeds, as opposed to the 19 or 17.


Maybe some who have had both can weigh in.

[Chris & Patricia]

Originally Posted by padlin

Things may have changed with the new body style but I always looked at it like the 21 with it's extra weight and larger front end profile exposed to airflow required a bigger TV, or at least a bigger engine, to pull it at highway speeds, as opposed to the 19 or 17.


Maybe some who have had both can weigh in.

Thanks for your very valid comments. There has been an interesting discussion on the forum on a Honda Ridgeline with a 5,000 lbs tow rating towing a 21, suggesting that its not really quite enough for a 21. Our existing TV has a 3,500lb rating, supposedly adequate for our existing 17B. However, we find that for long hills, and in British Columbia where we are there are lots of them, it laboured somewhat and its been in our mind to upgrade anyway. So we will need to take that into consideration as we don't really want to get a truck, preferring to keep with some kind of SUV. There was also a discussion on the Hyundai Santa Fe capably towing a 21, which, while not doubting the comments, does somewhat surprise me.

[Marry]

We have a 19, but at the Osoyoos rally my husband said: "maybe we should upgrade to a 21 with its extra two feet". Across from us was a 21, and he went to have a look inside. His remark when he came back: "I don't get it. The outside is bigger, but the inside looks smaller. More cramped".
I totally understood what he meant, and why. The entrance of the trailer in a 21 is smaller as the bed is right in front. The kitchen area is longer and a little wider, but because it's longer it looks more narrow. The dinette is bigger but because of the longer kitchen it doesn't look bigger. And because there are no windows all around in the 21, it seems darker.
Overall there is extra room in a 21, but with the extra light coming in in the 19 it feels more open.
Glad he came back from his visit with a smile on his face! I LOVE our 19.

[John in Santa Cruz]

the 19 we looked at, the bed was sideways like in our Casita, and the bathroom was in the middle, across from the stove, which made for a rather narrow aisle, so for instance if my wife was cooking, it would be hard for me to get by her. the 21 also has a huge fridge/freezer, which we really like.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by padlin

Things may have changed with the new body style but I always looked at it like the 21 with it's extra weight and larger front end profile exposed to airflow required a bigger TV, or at least a bigger engine, to pull it at highway speeds, as opposed to the 19 or 17.

the bigger front becomes more significant as the speed goes up. air friction goes up with the cube of the speed, so if there's a certain amount of friction at 55, there's 2.5 times more friction at 75, which is only 1.3X the speed.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Chris & Patricia

There has been an interesting discussion on the forum on a Honda Ridgeline with a 5,000 lbs tow rating towing a 21, suggesting that its not really quite enough for a 21.

There are lots of 21's pulled with a 5,000 lb tow capacity and they do great. There might be the odd long hill like you describe where passing becomes an issue, but they will do the job well 99% of the time.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the 21 also has a huge fridge/freezer, which we really like.

Though a 5 cf fridge is standard in the 19, you can still order the 6 cf fridge for $200. Any extra room for beer is always appreciated.

[cpaharley2008]

All valid points mentioned here, more weight and larger surface are impacts towing efficiency, lack of windows on all walls like the 19 impacts feeling of spaciousness. Having owned a 19 first and acquiring one of the first 21's made I experienced first hand this issues. Going back to a 19 seemed to have made a difference. That said and after seeing what others have done with their E21's, here is what I would do. You can ordered an optional side window over the night stand, opposite the kitchen window that will allow cross breeze as well as making it brighter. The addition of an optional front window will allow 360 degree viewing. You will however still have the weight and frontal area issues compared to a 17, which can not be negated. A new tow vehicle with more capacity, like the Hyundai or the Highlander will tow the bigger trailer, so if you do have to upgrade, why not take advantage of the capacity and get the Escape 21 with the additional windows. That is what I would do!

[casejh]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

All valid points mentioned here, more weight and larger surface are impacts towing efficiency, lack of windows on all walls like the 19 impacts feeling of spaciousness. Having owned a 19 first and acquiring one of the first 21's made I experienced first hand this issues. Going back to a 19 seemed to have made a difference. That said and after seeing what others have done with their E21's, here is what I would do. You can ordered an optional side window over the night stand, opposite the kitchen window that will allow cross breeze as well as making it brighter. The addition of an optional front window will allow 360 degree viewing. You will however still have the weight and frontal area issues compared to a 17, which can not be negated. A new tow vehicle with more capacity, like the Hyundai or the Highlander will tow the bigger trailer, so if you do have to upgrade, why not take advantage of the capacity and get the Escape 21 with the additional windows. That is what I would do!

We added the extra windows to our 21', both the front window and the window over the night stand/drawer stack. The extra light and visibility are significant and important to us, and yes it seemed that with a 21' there was not much of an increase in either weight or cost. But I can understand why folks prefer both the 19' and 21'.

[jennykatz]

We went with a 21 for many reasons
1-Cost about $1500 when ordering a 19 with bigger fridge and reverse dinette maybe even less
2-weight was about 300 lb difference not enough to change tow Vehickle
3- 4 in wider for better stability on the road and extra space to walk around
4-I did not want a front window or side window When i take a nap or just want to sleep I want darkness
5-More Storage
6- Bigger bathroom for showering and taking care of business
7-Much bigger fridge unless ordering a bigger one for 19 which cuts down on storage

But to each his own we came from a 17 ft Lil Snoozy and wanted the N/S bed instead of climbing over each other Jim from Naples

[Chris & Patricia]

Originally Posted by casejh

We added the extra windows to our 21', both the front window and the window over the night stand/drawer stack. The extra light and visibility are significant and important to us, and yes it seemed that with a 21' there was not much of an increase in either weight or cost. But I can understand why folks prefer both the 19' and 21'.

Not sure that we would take the front window as that would delete the bookshelf above the bed which we like and would use. However, didn’t see the additional window above the drawer stack in the list of options or the build sheet. Maybe that options is no longer offered, will have to check with ETI.

[BCnomad]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

There are lots of 21's pulled with a 5,000 lb tow capacity and they do great. There might be the odd long hill like you describe where passing becomes an issue, but they will do the job well 99% of the time.

Absolutely Jim. It depends on the OP's or any tower's expectations and how often they pull/descend mountain passes. Conversely, predominantly flat land towers have their own set of experiences. Add in urban/rural parking needs and it's a fine mess getting the perfect vehicle.

Now if I could just put a Jake brake on my V8 exhaust ....

[Allan Bornestig]

Good morning Chris and Patricia.
We had the the 17 for 11 years, skipped the 19 and got the 21.We did not get the extra window on the side but if we would be ordering now we would get it for more light.
No window in front, nice and cozy corner bed.Love the the trouble free large fridge and freezer.U shaped dining. Made a cocktail table for the dining area since it is only the two of us, easier to get in and out.Bathroom is good. Ordered dividers for bathroom cabinet from RV Widgets and dividers for above kitchen counter and other cabinets.My wife loves those, helps to stay organised.Outside shower on passenger side for doing dishes or washing the foxterrier.
We love our 21.
Enjoy the summer and all the planning.
Allan.

[AllanEdie]

We ordered the 21 for many of the reasons already mentioned. Another reason not mentioned is that I greatly prefer the dinette view to be at the back of the trailer, not the front. That is where the best view usually is, and the dinette is where we sit when the view matters.



To each, his or her own.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by AllanEdie

We ordered the 21 for many of the reasons already mentioned. Another reason not mentioned is that I greatly prefer the dinette view to be at the back of the trailer, not the front. That is where the best view usually is, and the dinette is where we sit when the view matters.

While we have had some fantastic views from the rear dinette in our 5.0TA, we have also looked at walls of trees on at least two sides. While the view out the front in the 19 dinette is not always the best, there always is one.

Being the type that likes to be outside as much as possible, for me the location of the dinette is not a huge factor for me personally. Outside is always where the be view is.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Chris & Patricia

However, we find that for long hills, and in British Columbia where we are there are lots of them, it laboured somewhat and its been in our mind to upgrade anyway. So we will need to take that into consideration as we don't really want to get a truck, preferring to keep with some kind of SUV. There was also a discussion on the Hyundai Santa Fe capably towing a 21, which, while not doubting the comments, does somewhat surprise me.

Remember what was said though and apply it with caution to your own terrain and towing style. Direct quote from that discussion (Santa Fe towing a 21): “If I were routinely towing through the Rocky Mountains or if I wanted to keep my speed at 65 mph even when climbing hills I might not be as satisfied. But neither of those apply to me...”

[CADreamin]

Having sold our 19' in preparation for the September delivery of our new 21', I can say that you'll probably be happy no matter which one you choose. We thought that, with just the two of us and our two dogs, the 19' would be perfect; however, a few things prompted us to 'move up'. No. 1, floor space: We found that moving about in the trailer, especially in inclement weather, was problematic. While our dogs are well behaved and not large, it did require some coordination of effort -- especially when I was cooking. No. 2, the bed: While the queen bed in the 19' was nice, it was hard crawling over one another when exiting at night -- and that bed is a bit of a distance from the floor (ask the short person who fell more than once when climbing over the other person). Plus, that's a lot of area to set aside for just sleeping in a 19' trailer. We feel that we'll do better with the elongated full bed in the 21' and we like the placement of the bed and bath at the front of the trailer.

The 19' had plenty of storage space so that's a 'push'. Insofar as more light is concerned, when it wasn't rainy or cold, we always had the door open for light and fresh air and we will do the same with the 21' (if it's nasty outside or dark, you'll turn on the lights anyway so one less window shouldn't make too much of a difference). The 19' is a bit smaller when towing so that's a consideration (we did opt for a new tow vehicle as we felt our 2004 Tundra would be stretched a bit with the 21'). Bottom line, it's all a matter of personal preference. What works for some won't work at all for others and that's why it's good to check out both trailers in person.

[NCBill]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Remember what was said though and apply it with caution to your own terrain and towing style. Direct quote from that discussion (Santa Fe towing a 21): “If I were routinely towing through the Rocky Mountains or if I wanted to keep my speed at 65 mph even when climbing hills I might not be as satisfied. But neither of those apply to me...”

+100 And its not just the terrain where you live, its also about the terrain where you travel. We spend a lot of time in the Rocky Mtns. We had an underpowered TV once, won't do it again. (For those in WA State, we ended up topping the Vantage grade at a whopping 29MPH). While I don't have to be able to be the fastest up a mtn grade, I don't want to be the slowest either.

Its one problem with other people's recommendations. Unless you happened to be in the co-pilot seat during a long steep grade, what may be plenty for someone else may be grossly inadequate for you or just the opposite.

No one ever had a problem going up a grade with a little extra to spare.

Ultimately its your decision. Everyone has an opinion, sometimes you have to read between the lines.

[Chris & Patricia]

Lots of good and useful comments so far and thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion. We are still listening and reading.

PS Anyone on the forum in the Vancouver area who can let us look through their newer version Escape 19 or 21?. If so please PM me, thanks. Although we have crawled through the showroom models, they are inside and you don't get the benefit of being outside and really experiencing the difference of the light inside the 19/21.