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Old 11-30-2022, 03:20 PM   #1
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Escape 21C Composting to Flush Conversion?

Proud owner of a very pristine used 21C. Love everything but the compositing toilet.

I’m getting guidance from the factory and I’m pretty sure I can rout the flange hole and get a toilet installed but I’m wondering if anybody has done this and perhaps give me some tips?

I’m also wondering if anybody knows what the round metal disk is in the attached picture? It’s not quite in the center of the platform but I’m wondering if it is where I need to center the flange hole?


What version of Proseal should I use?

Would a Dometic 311 fit or do I need to stick with the Thetford?

Regards,

Mike Jolley
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Old 11-30-2022, 03:49 PM   #2
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Perhaps the factory maybe able to help with your questions/....
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Old 11-30-2022, 05:05 PM   #3
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If you don't mind sharing, what don't you like about the compost toilet? Easy to go wrong with them but if used correctly I think they're great.
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Old 11-30-2022, 05:45 PM   #4
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Perhaps a 21c owner or ETI could get you flange placement measurements. I don’t have a 21c.
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:02 PM   #5
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Yah beat me to it. But then I had to trudge out to my trailer through the snow, 5 miles uphill in both directions.

The base is located: 3" from the front lip, 3 1/2" from the rear wall, 7 7/8" from the window side wall and 7 5/8" from the interior wall.

Ron
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Old 11-30-2022, 08:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
Yah beat me to it. But then I had to trudge out to my trailer through the snow, 5 miles uphill in both directions.

The base is located: 3" from the front lip, 3 1/2" from the rear wall, 7 7/8" from the window side wall and 7 5/8" from the interior wall.

Ron
Ron you are a fountain of information. Escape and my husband are playing phone tag and leaving messages with each other. I think he was hoping someone like Ron would have some tips for this somewhat delicate conversion. This is the beauty of the Forum, the amazing amount of knowledge and experience you all have.

As for “why not the composting toilet.” Too many videos listing potential issues, particularly moisture, bugs, urine canisters and smells. Mike is very comfortable with dealing with the black tank already, so comfort over potential unknown issues. We also live in the PNW, the land of moisture, which sounds like the bane of the composting toilet.
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:09 PM   #7
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Just like household toilets, there is a standard rough in number for RV toilets. If you look at the Dometic 311 toilet dimensions and specs you will find it has a 10.0 inch rough in, which is 10 inches from the wall behind the toilet to the CENTER of the hole/mounting flange. The 311 has a seat height of 13.5 inches (installation manual, for reference HERE )

I am assuming the toilet sits on top of the tank, on top of the floor. You do not want the seat height to be more than 18 inches and probably a little less (I prefer a 15 inch RIM height, but 18 inches is the Federal ADA standard for some reason.) Seat height is a inch give or take more than rim height.

There are two Thetford toilets but I'm guessing you want a porcelain bowl so the Aqua-Magic Style II is the closest thing to the Dometic 311. The Aqua-Magic Style II in low profile has a 12 inch height floor to rim, probably about 13 inches to the seat. You can find links to the install manual, and dimension drawings in the link above. Note that it has a back of the unit to the center of the mounting ring dimension of 9½ inches and thus allows for a rough in of 10 inches, with a half inch from the wall.

Hope this helps.
Charles
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:55 PM   #8
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Did you go to my same School?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
Yah beat me to it. But then I had to trudge out to my trailer through the snow, 5 miles uphill in both directions.

The base is located: 3" from the front lip, 3 1/2" from the rear wall, 7 7/8" from the window side wall and 7 5/8" from the interior wall.

Ron
Ron,

Is your trailer stored at my old school? Because that sounds like what I had to do as a kid walking to school
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:46 PM   #9
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Ron,

Is your trailer stored at my old school? Because that sounds like what I had to do as a kid walking to school
Must be. Kids these days don't know how lucky the are.

Actually, compared to installing a toilet in a building, the trailer installation is a lot more forgiving. Difficult and time wasting if the toilet flange ends up too close to a wall and has to be redone. But in the trailer I don't think the location has to be nearly as precise. I installed a marine head in an area with a very similar structure. I centered it side-to-side and opened the toilet seat to make sure that it could flip back a suitable amount.

Ron
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:38 PM   #10
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on my 21C, the black tank and black drain pipe is half under the bed, not sure how you could get it in there after the trailer was finished. But, my trailer has the foam insulation on the bottom, so I can't see how its supported from underneath.
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Old 12-01-2022, 08:16 PM   #11
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Toilet Conversion Update

I spoke to ETI and got the warm and fuzzy on how to rout a hole in the fiberglass floor to lineup with the inlet of the black water tank.

1) Mark the center of the toilet shelf.

2). With a hole saw on a drill cut a 2.5 inch diameter hole in the fiber glass. You need to take it slowly so you dont overshoot and damage the nylon bushing on the tank. Needless to saw wear PPE including a dust mask.

3). I was centered up pretty good and I was able to verify the edge of the plywood cutout and set my router with a piloted bit so the bearing rode up against the inside wall of the plywood cutout.

4) Best practice would have been to cut out more of the fiberglass beore triming with the piloted bit but I didnt have a bigger hole saw and all my jig saw blades wh\ere too long so I just fired up my router and did a quarter of a circle at a time and nibbled off each segment as I went from the center.

I can now do the rest of the plumbing to get a flush toilet installed.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:53 PM   #12
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One of those take a deep breath and do it jobs. Looks like it's progressing well.

I'm not understanding your starting point. Was there already a black tank in place?

Ron
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:31 PM   #13
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Yes, the black tank was installed, but not hooked up.
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:58 AM   #14
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Right on! Good aim!
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:40 AM   #15
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Right on! Good aim!
That's for sure.

What held down the composting toilet and how are you going to hold down the new toilet?

Ron
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
What held down the composting toilet and how are you going to hold down the new toilet?
A toilet floor flange will need to be added to get the mating surface with the toilet above the floor level. If this can be screwed into the plywood then it will be secure enough for the two closet bolts to hold the toilet in place. Just like a residential toilet more or less. Screw length is critical to not pierce the top of the black tank!
Something like this:
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...oaAm9SEALw_wcB
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:16 PM   #17
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There is plenty of space from the top of the black tank in a 21C. I regularly store soft items on top of it. Am thing 8- 10 inches.
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Old 12-02-2022, 10:07 PM   #18
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The compositing toilet was mounted to the fiberglass floor via some nice SS brackets held in place with 1/2 long SS wood screws. I have a male threaded toilet flange on order that I will screw into the female bushing on the tank. I will use the screws from above or something a bit longer to lock the flange down. The plywood under the the fiberglass is high quality 5/8 in Baltic Birch.
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:01 PM   #19
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Just to give credit, where credit is due, the above job and any of the Engineering/Construction posts are from Mike and not KarenPDX. We are a team in many things, but taking out and putting in toilets is fully a Mike job.
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:03 PM   #20
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baltic birch rocks. sadly, most of it is from Russia. Its really popular in the amateur telescope making hobby as the construction material for the wooden parts of a 'Dobsonian' telescope as it can be machined with a router to close tolerances, and finishes really nicely very easily.
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