FullTiming-propane not happy with cold weather - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Problem Solving | Owners helping each other
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-22-2015, 12:08 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 42
FullTiming-propane not happy with cold weather

Hi,

I am full timing for the next 2 months in Seattle. Living in the Escape was the easiest solution for staying to complete a job this winter and keeping my dog with me. I have had some interesting times so far, but have come across my first big challenge that I can't seem to puzzle out.

I have discovered that the last 3 nights when it has dipped below freezing and stayed that way until morning, that my furnace, hot water heater and stove do not want to work. Once morning comes and the temperature gets near freezing, I start getting low volume flow to the stove. Then after it gets a few degrees warmer, my hot water heater works and then eventually the furnace.

My dual tanks are full (just filled the empty one 2 days ago) and I am hooked up to city water and electricity. Any thoughts as to why my propane would slow it's flow with cold and then increase with the warmth?

Thanks for any help,

Kelly
kmart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 01:12 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2016 19 / Toyota 4Runner 2019
Posts: 343
Propane problem

Propane boils at -44F so I don't think your issue is cold tanks. I had a house at Silver Star heated with propane from an outside uninsulated bullet tank and it worked just fine at minus 20 to heat the whole house.

I would suspect the regulator freezing up maybe water in the lines or a bad batch of propane that has been known to happen. Try pouring some hot water on the regulator and see if that makes it start working.
__________________
Hugh
hughharden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 01:41 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
I agree with Hugh, that it could likely be something to do with the regulator not working right when it cools, as propane should work just fine at those temps.

If you are only dipping below freezing, and it is warming up good during the day, you have no worries regarding things freezing up bad. Heck, those are the weather conditions for much of our camping.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 01:58 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
BCnomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: O town, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 "Lightning"
Posts: 1,467
Assuming its not the regulator, can you wrap tanks in old blankets to insulate them?

0C happens to be the boiling point of butane which is often/always mixed into the LPG. High enough percentage would cause those problems too.
BCnomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 02:18 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Going below freezing can do major damage so you need to figure this out right away. Are you at a campground with a host? You can ask him or anyone to look at your propane regulator and connections to see if they see anything wrong. Would also e-mail and leave messages with ETI and tell them you are in below freezing temps. You need to get the forecast to see how far below you are going the next nights.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 02:59 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Ron in BC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
Since you have power a short term solution would be to put a simple light bulb near the regulator. Doesn't take much, even a 40 watt bulb in a cheap reading lamp (to protect the bulb) from Walmart would do. I use light bulbs in various ways to provide a very small amount of targeted heat.

Ron
Ron in BC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 04:24 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughharden View Post
Propane boils at -44F so I don't think your issue is cold tanks.
I agree. While propane pressure in the tank falls with lower temperatures, there's still lots at just below freezing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughharden View Post
I would suspect the regulator freezing up maybe water in the lines or a bad batch of propane that has been known to happen. Try pouring some hot water on the regulator and see if that makes it start working.
Again, I agree. There is often a bit of water in propane, and it can block the regulator by freezing. It happens at the regulator because where the propane pressure is reduced there is a chilling effect, so that's the cold point... which can be much colder than the surrounding air. Thick frost often forms on a regulator in conditions under which nothing else is getting frosty.

I have experienced this, and if I have AC power I use a hot air gun (industrial version of a hair dryer) to thaw - it's neater and perhaps faster than pouring hot water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCnomad View Post
Assuming its not the regulator, can you wrap tanks in old blankets to insulate them?
If there is a lack of propane pressure due to low temperature, this would just make the situation worse. Conversion of liquid propane to vapour in the tank absorbs heat, chilling the tank contents; insulating it would just prevent it from absorbing heat from the surrounding air. This is opposite from wrapping blankets around yourself: your body is a heat source, so insulation helps to keep the heat in (the propane tanks have no source of heat to keep in).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCnomad View Post
0C happens to be the boiling point of butane which is often/always mixed into the LPG. High enough percentage would cause those problems too.
Good point - what is sold as "propane" is actually LPG, which means Liquified Petroleum Gas (not Liquid Propane Gas) and it is not pure propane. Butane content will reduce vapour pressure, but I hope even in relatively mild Seattle there isn't enough butane to be a problem.

Propane Butane Mix - Evaporation Pressure
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 04:26 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Brantingham Lake, New York
Trailer: 2001 coachmen
Posts: 274
Depending on the propane mixture...The regulator will freeze if the line isn't being used often. This happens on our line to our generator.

To solve it..we loosely wrapped the regulator (vent clear). We also have put a five gallon bucket over it. Prior to that....If it freezes, we use a hair dryer.
reetired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 04:33 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Kelly, have you ever used a soapy solution to test for leaks of propane? When at an RV place some time, you can also have them do a simple propane pressure test.

The folks above have indicated what your problem might be, however, with any propane problem, it might be good to assume a leak and act accordingly until the problem is found. You can test for leaks.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 05:37 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
alanmalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,682
I can't add much to solve Kelly's problem - but his description seems to indicate a regulator issue, and that in turn prompted me to purchase a spare regulator on EBay a few minutes ago.

If having a spare part in advance has the normal effect on the universe - I will never have a regulator failure...

--
Alan
alanmalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 05:40 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 42
Thanks all for the suggestions. Since I have full hookups I have been leaving my small electric heater plugged in at night and just turning it on in the middle of the night so nothing internally has to get too cold, including me and the dog. However this isn't a long term solution.

I will call a couple of the local camping repair places tomorrow and get some opinions on this. Seems like I need to replace the regulator, that there is somehow moisture involved here and my guess is that it is water since 30F isn't really that cold.

I was way more concerned with my water hose freezing and my non-insulated underside making the trailer floor cold and never even thought about the Lp system when I was weighing the challenges of full timing in freezing temperatures. It is so rare for it to be below freezing temperatures here in Seattle for more than a day or two.

Thanks again,
Kelly
kmart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 05:50 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
thoer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk View Post
.

If having a spare part in advance has the normal effect on the universe - I will never have a regulator failure...

--
Alan
Alan - that's always been my experience.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
thoer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 06:03 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
I was not suggesting an electric heater as we never sleep with ours on or unattended. Those little heaters have been known to cause fires. In this case, hard to say if the electric is more dangerous than the propane since the problem is unknown. Hope you find it soon.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 09:17 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 49
Had this problem with our new 19 early last year. After phone discussions with Reece and some testing, it turned out to be a bad propane regulator. Replaced it with a new one (different brand - Camco, I think - that's the one the dealer in Mesa, AZ happened to have on hand) and have had no problems since. The removal of the old and installation of the new took me all of about fifteen minutes.
Richard Krueger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 10:12 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Juneau, Alaska
Trailer: 2015 17A - Ready for more Maiden Voyages ....
Posts: 881
Well I have another fool proof solution .... get two more dogs and if the temperature really drops ... whistle them in and have a three dog night


Tom
__________________
Consciousness: That confusing time between naps
StarvingHyena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 07:35 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Burlington, Vermont
Trailer: 2014 17b/ 2012 Chevy Colorado
Posts: 736
We too had a similar problem when we picked up our 17b last winter. Solved with new regulator. Since then we have been in temps as low as -20 F without problems. Too bad you didn't order the extra insulation under the trailer. Given that you are in a semi permanent situation you might construct a skirt around the bottom of the trailer which should help with the cold floor somewhat.
yardsale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 07:06 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Krueger View Post
Replaced it with a new one
...
and have had no problems since.
As I mentioned in a previous similar discussion, I have found that after extended use a regulator can accumulate oil, which is a contaminant in propane. This can make it fail to regulate, or more prone to freeze-up. I have taken out a regulator and poured oil out of it, more than once. Having two regulators to swap when required seems like a good idea in cold weather, and one that needs draining and drying out can be a perfectly good spare.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 07:59 PM   #18
Site Team
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,023
I can't help with any suggestions about your propane issue.. I use it so little.


BUT, I have a great solution for an electric portable heater.


I purchased a Vordano Whole Room electric heater for Ten Forward based on an all-molded-towable owner's recommendation. I am 100% satisfied! It's not small, about the size of an oversized basketball. What I like about it, is the fan runs all the time and only the thermostat turns on the heat. No clicking and a fan coming on in the middle of the night. It's more like a quiet white noise machine. And, the fan is quiet.


It wasn't cheap... I've purchased 4 of those crappy things. Cost me about $90 (love Amazon Prime!). I think I'm going to purchase another one for my sticks 'n bricks.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2015, 12:55 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Devil Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Steveston B.C., British Columbia
Trailer: 2012- 17'B.... 2016 Tacoma SR5 TRD
Posts: 504
Heater blankets.

Propane Tank Heater - Powerblanket 2015Powerblanket 2015
__________________
I've almost been everywhere man.
Almost been everywhere.....
Devil Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2015, 01:32 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
gbaglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
I used to have a wood stove in the living room. And I would be out in the carport cutting 2x4 scrap into suitable lengths for this little stove with my table saw.
One cold morning, it occurred to me that I could use that electricity to power an oil-filled heater, instead of the table saw.
Pulled the stove and donated it to a charity rummage sale.

If you have to plug these propane blankets in, why not just plug in an electric heater?
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
gbaglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.