generator and EMS codes E2 and PE2

[Jinny]

I have a Honda 2000i generator. When I start it, I get E2 and PE2 codes on the EMS.
E2 means open ground, no ground wire connection
PE2 error code rectified.

SO a generator is not grounded like a home electric connection.
Is it safe to run the generator connected to a 17B?

[Centex]

This thread, with reference to use of a neutral ground bonding plug, may be of interest:

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ion-18537.html

Hope that helps.

[Hawkeye Ed]

Originally Posted by Jinny

I have a Honda 2000i generator. When I start it, I get E2 and PE2 codes on the EMS.
E2 means open ground, no ground wire connection
PE2 error code rectified.

SO a generator is not grounded like a home electric connection.
Is it safe to run the generator connected to a 17B?

The EMS surge protector checks for several faults, including an open ground. An open ground means the ground wire and the neutral are not bonded (connected) anywhere between the generator and the RV.

E2 is the error code for open ground; PE2 means that previously the same error appeared (probably last time you hooked the generator up to your camper).

There's lots of information online about ground-neutral bonding if you want to research it. But most people just want the error code to go away so they can get back to camping.

What to do? People either make their own bonding plug or buy one like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Southwire-Com...dp/B07F4R7BDL/

Plug the camper into one outlet on your EU2000, plug the bonding plug into the other, and fire up the generator. Your EMS will be happy (no error code) and you can get back to camping!

[Jinny]

this was very helpful. Thanks
So I either get a neutral ground bonding plug for the generator
or turn off the EMS and trust the generator....

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Jinny

this was very helpful. Thanks
So I either get a neutral ground bonding plug for the generator
or turn off the EMS and trust the generator....

Or you can purchase a three prong replacement plug at Lowe’s HD, or any hardware store and use a short piece of wire to connect the grounding prong screw to the neutral screw (typically silver colored and the hot screw is typically brass/gold colored) and make your own bonding plug quickly and i expensively.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Jinny

this was very helpful. Thanks
So I either get a neutral ground bonding plug for the generator
or turn off the EMS and trust the generator....

Get or make the grounding plug.



Surge Guard Generator Neutral

The EMS is especially important when using a generator. When the generator is running out of fuel it can surge, causing unwanted fluctuations in the voltage.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jinny

SO a generator is not grounded like a home electric connection.

Many small inverter generators like your EU2000i have a floating neutral but some generators don’t. Many larger generators and the small Honda EB2000i industrial version, etc. have their neutral bonded to frame.

The simplest solution for you is the neutral bonding plug as mentioned above.

[steve dunham]

The EMS in our 2018 trailer has been in the bypass mode for the last two years and will continue to be in the bypass mode as long as we own the trailer or I get the ambition to remove it . * We don’t camp utilizing a generator *

[Jinny]

I have the plug on order from Amazon.
Safety first.
Thank you everybody

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Jinny

I have the plug on order from Amazon.
Safety first.
Thank you everybody

Jeff Bezos has enough money.

[CharlesPou]

as I understand it, it's not a safety issue. I'm not an electrician, but you have a Honda generator, there are literally millions in use, it's the EMS. no work around plug needed, just turn the EMS off, that simple. if had to do over again, I would not order the built in EMS, approx 50% of the places I go, EMS has a problem with the camp wiring, and I have to turn if off to get electricity to the trailer. I called the company, don't remember the name, but was told surge protection is still on even if the diagnostics are off, so I think I'm still protected from a power surge. cheers

[Jinny]

Fascinating that the EMS still does surge protection when turned off.
I called my local RV store and they were not helpful about having the plug, so ordered it from AMazon. Hopefully the little company who makes the plugs are also getting a bit of profit....
Will see if the plug stops the error message. Should know tomorrow when it is scheduled to arrive and I will test it.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

as I understand it, it's not a safety issue. I'm not an electrician, but you have a Honda generator, there are literally millions in use, it's the EMS. no work around plug needed, just turn the EMS off, that simple. if had to do over again, I would not order the built in EMS, approx 50% of the places I go, EMS has a problem with the camp wiring, and I have to turn if off to get electricity to the trailer. I called the company, don't remember the name, but was told surge protection is still on even if the diagnostics are off, so I think I'm still protected from a power surge. cheers

Actually, it is a safety issue. The EMS doesn't know that a generator is supplying power to the trailer so it assumes that a required ground is missing.

For a generator, a ground is not needed as it has no reference to ground like the power from a utility. So the bonding plug tells the generator that the ground is not missing and it is satisfied.

However, if you are connected to a utility power source and the ground is missing, you are at risk of electrocution.

Turning off the EMS when it finds fault with the power source that the trailer is connected to is your decision - but a very risky one to make. Damage to your trailer equipment or a fatal accident to you or your family is possible.

Oh, and I am a certified electrical safety engineer.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

as I understand it, it's not a safety issue. I'm not an electrician, but you have a Honda generator, there are literally millions in use, it's the EMS. no work around plug needed, just turn the EMS off, that simple. if had to do over again, I would not order the built in EMS, approx 50% of the places I go, EMS has a problem with the camp wiring, and I have to turn if off to get electricity to the trailer. I called the company, don't remember the name, but was told surge protection is still on even if the diagnostics are off, so I think I'm still protected from a power surge. cheers

The EMS does more than just surge protection. The protection the EMS provides is for more than just power surges. Yes, even when the EMS is off surge protection is active.

What isn't active is low voltage protection. Low voltage can burn out your air conditioner motor. Disabling the EMS also eliminates the delay when you have a momentary power loss. A momentary power loss while the AC is running can cause the AC compressor to try and restart while it is under load, which can also damage the air conditioner. To prevent this when you have a momentary power loss the EMS will not reengage the power for up to 136 seconds this two plus minute delay allows the load to dissipate protecting your AC compressor when it restarts.

The EMS also check for correct wiring of the power source. I personally have run into incorrectly wired power posts at campgrounds and I seldom use campsites with hookups.

[TTMartin]

What the EMS does

High/Low Voltage Protection:

Whenever A/C power falls below 104 volts, or rises above 132 volts, the EMS automatically shuts down power to the RV. The EMS will monitor the power and once the AC power rises above 104 volts, or below the 132 volt level, the time delay indicator flashes for the present time and then automatically restores power to the RV.

Time Delay for A/C Compressor:

If the AC power is interrupted, or the EMS detects a fault condition, the built-in time delay is activated. There are two settings on the EMS: one is a 136-seconds (02:16) time delay and the other is 15 seconds. Consult your air conditioner manual to see if it has a time delay built in. If so, use the 15 second delay, if not; use the 136-second delay. The factory setting is 15 seconds.

3-Mode Surge Protection (HW30C model):

This feature provides full surge protection L-N, L-G and N-G. Total Joule rating is 1,790, 44,00A surge current. Response time of <1 Nano second.

Surge Indicator:

In the event of a power surge and the surge protector circuit is damaged within the EMS, L-N or L-G, the digital display error code will read E-10. This indicates the EMS needs to be serviced.

Reverse Polarity Protection:

If AC power is a reverse polarity condition, the EMS will not allow power to the RV and the error code will read E-1.

Open Neutral Protection:

If AC power has an open neutral condition, the display will not light, and the EMS will not allow power to the RV.

Open Ground Protection:

If AC power has an open ground condition, the EMS will read an error code of E-2 and power will not be allowed to the RV.

AC Frequency Protection:

If AC power frequency deviates +/- 9 hertz from 60 cycles per second, the EMS will shut down power. An error code of E-7 will be displayed when the frequency is high; and an error code will be displayed with the frequency is low.

Accidental 240V Protection:

If 240 volts is detected when plugging in AC power, the EMS will NOT allow power to the RV. If this condition occurs while power is applied to the RV, the EMS shuts off power instantly. This display will read the voltage and E-3 for the error. (NEVER BYPASS THE EMS WHEN THIS OCCURS.)

Display:

Continuously scrolls all the AC power information, including voltage, current, frequency, error codes and previous errors. Each reading is displayed for two (2) seconds.

Previous Error Code:

This feature tells the user what the previous error was and why power was interrupted to the RV. To read a previous error code, put a "P" in front of the "E" code. This is only displayed is an actual error occurs. The error is deleted when power is disconnected from the EMS.

Bypass:

Enclosed blue jumper wire allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled.

[Vermilye]

For me the most useful reason for having the EMS display working, campground or generator, is the current reading. Particularly useful if plugged into a 15 / 20 amp receptacle or small generator. Lets you know, for example, that the water heater electric element is on so you shouldn't fire up the microwave, etc.

Either purchase or make the bonding plug to get full advantage of the EMS.

[steve dunham]

A $5 plug in tester will sense power , reverse polarity , an open neutral and an open equipment ground
A $20 voltage sensing relay with a timing function will sense a low voltage condition and shut down your A/C and prevent short cycling
The majority of the electrical equipment in the trailer is 12 Volt or not affected by a low AC voltage condition or minor spikes in the electrical supply
( Water Heater , toaster , griddle , coffee pot , crock pot all of which are inexpensive to replace )
The only electronics we take camping is our cell phone
which we charge in our tow vehicle
For us an EMS is an expensive insurance policy YMMV

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

A $5 plug in tester will sense reverse polarity , an open neutral and a open equipment ground
A $20 voltage sensing relay with a timing function will sense a low voltage condition and shut down your A/C and prevent short cycling
The majority of the factory installed electrical equipment in the trailer is 12 Volt or not affected by a low AC voltage condition or minor spikes in the electrical supply ( Water Heaters)

Steve, you are correct. Those devices will do some of the tests that the EMS does.

But why turn off the EMS since it is already installed in your trailer to use these separate devices?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Steve, you are correct. Those devices will do some of the tests that the EMS does.

But why turn off the EMS since it is already installed in your trailer to use these separate devices?

My point was that $25 to $30 worth of equipment can perform the majority of the EMS functions for a far lower cost and with far greater reliability
The constant nuisance tripping of our EMS created more problems than it solved
I got tired of waking up to a cold trailer or not being able to make a pot of coffee or cook breakfast because our EMS was tripping for no sound reason .
A brief period of slightly elevated voltage ( 125 to 126 VAC ) is not an issue IMHO

If I could get our EMS to hold its settings , then my opinion might be different .

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I got tired of waking up to a cold trailer
...
A brief period of slightly elevated voltage ( 125 to 126 VAC ) is not an issue IMHO

Sounds like you have something defective in your EMS. If you experience a ' brief period of slightly elevated voltage' the EMS should restore power 15 to 136 seconds after the voltage returns to normal.

From the manual:

Whenever A/C power falls below 104 volts, or rises above 132 volts, the EMS automatically shuts down power to the RV. The EMS will monitor the power and once the AC power rises above 104 volts, or below the 132 volt level, the time delay indicator flashes for the present time [15 or 136 seconds] and then automatically restores power to the RV.