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Old 06-06-2021, 05:58 PM   #1
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Generator input doesn't work

We've got a new 17 and a new Honda 2000 and a crazy problem.

1) The generator works stand alone

2) The 110 power works in the trailer when connected to shore power

3) But connecting the generator to the trailer doesn't work. We're using the same cord as well as a new cord.

Feels like we're missing something really simple, but can't imagine what it would be.
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Old 06-06-2021, 06:18 PM   #2
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You need a neutral bonding plug for The other outlet on your generator. You can make one or
You can buy one. Then your EMS will Accept the generator like it does when you’re plugged into shore power. The plug costs about $10 at camper dealerships or on line. I have one made by Southwire. That’s the whole answer that you need. My wife was A second grade teacher. She asked the kids to bring
An insect to school to study. One boy had great hand eye coordination and speed. He brought in a jar full of cockroaches. Taking the lid off in the classroom got everyone involved. So it goes with form threads.
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Old 06-06-2021, 06:35 PM   #3
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Thanks Dave. My wife posted this while I was still messing with it.
Two things:
1. When I hook up power from my house it takes a good 5 to 10 minutes for the relay to kick in the power.
2. When I hook up the generator the relay never comes on. I have a 30 amp and a 15 amp connector on my generator.

Could the converter be bad?

Fred
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Old 06-06-2021, 06:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWRobbin View Post
Thanks Dave. My wife posted this while I was still messing with it.
Two things:
1. When I hook up power from my house it takes a good 5 to 10 minutes for the relay to kick in the power.
2. When I hook up the generator the relay never comes on. I have a 30 amp and a 15 amp connector on my generator.
But did you add a neutral bonding plug as Dave explained? If you have the EMS (likely, since you are describing a "relay" kicking in) and don't have that plug, it's probably your problem.

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Originally Posted by PNWRobbin View Post
Could the converter be bad?
The converter (or converter/charger) converts 120 V AC power to 12 volts DC - it has nothing to do with providing AC power.
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Old 06-06-2021, 06:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWRobbin View Post
We've got a new 17 and a new Honda 2000 and a crazy problem.

1) The generator works stand alone

2) The 110 power works in the trailer when connected to shore power

3) But connecting the generator to the trailer doesn't work. We're using the same cord as well as a new cord.

Feels like we're missing something really simple, but can't imagine what it would be.
I am assuming you have an EMS in your trailer. The EMS requires you have a "true" (not floating) ground to allow current to pass. The generator does not have a true ground, i.e., a grounding rod as does your home's 120 VAC. When I use my generator, I turn my EMS to "by-pass" mode since I am do not need the EMS to detect reverse polarity, etc.
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Old 06-06-2021, 06:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
You need a neutral bonding plug for The other outlet on your generator. You can make one or
You can buy one. Then your EMS will Accept the generator like it does when you’re plugged into shore power. The plug costs about $10 at camper dealerships or on line. I have one made by Southwire. That’s the whole answer that you need. My wife was A second grade teacher. She asked the kids to bring
An insect to school to study. One boy had great hand eye coordination and speed. He brought in a jar full of cockroaches. Taking the lid off in the classroom got everyone involved. So it goes with form threads.
Paints a picture doesn’t it?
Iowa Dave
Had exactly the same problem. Neutral Bonding Plug fixed it. It seems the only way to learn this is to experience it and then ask questions. Tons of people know the answer when you start asking around. I had to make mine as I needed one right away and no one had any in stock. Dead easy to make though.
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Old 06-06-2021, 07:19 PM   #7
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Thanks! You saved our trip

We found a bypass switch for the EMS system and are good to go. So great to get such fast responses!

My husband sends thanks and I send hugs,



Robbin
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Old 06-06-2021, 07:50 PM   #8
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Great.

Just don't forget to switch the EMS back on before plugging into any unknown power source at a campground.
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Old 06-06-2021, 10:13 PM   #9
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Be aware that even a Honda 2000 can malfunction resulting in a dangerous surge/over-voltage. Rare, but it has happened. It is better to get or make a bonding plug. Go to any hardware store and get a three pronged plug and a short piece of wire. Connect one end of the wire to the neutral terminal/screw and the other to the ground. Plug it into the generator and plug the trailer into the generator using a 15 to 30 amp adapter. Turn the EMS on. Then start the generator and wait the 2 minutes for the EMS to perform its checks.
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Old 06-07-2021, 01:45 AM   #10
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Just so people know, we're talking about the optional Progressive Industries hardwired EMS-HW30C RV Surge & Electrical Protector that's designed to help protect your RV against voltage fluctuations, power surges and incorrectly wired shore power which can cause severe and costly damage to RV appliances and electronics.

More info and operating and instruction manual here:

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

You'll note in the manual that there's a time delay built into the EMS that can protect an air conditioner's compressor. When you first plug in, if AC power is interrupted or the EMS detects a fault condition, the built in time delay is activated. There are two settings on the EMS: one is 136 seconds (02:16), and the other is 15 seconds. I checked our air conditioner manual to see if it has a time delay built in and it does so I use the 15 second delay which is the factory setting. It appears that, perhaps out of an abundance of caution, Escape changes the delay to the longer time.

As noted in this thread, one of the checks the EMS does before allowing 120V AC into your RV is to make sure the incoming electrical source is grounded. That's an excellent check for times when you're connected to a questionable RV park electric pedestal. But when you're using a generator, particularly the recent inverter types from Honda and Yamaha, for instance, the ground conductor in the power cord is "floating", which misleads the EMS into thinking something's wrong. So, as others have suggested, you can either turn the EMS into bypass mode when using a generator or make/buy one of the plugs that has a wire connecting the ground with the neutral lug, and put the plug into another receptacle on the generator.

Here's a good article about ground-neutral bonding from the No Shock Zone web site entitled When A Portable Generator Won’t Power Your RV.

Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding | No~Shock~Zone

I recommend all the RV-related electrical articles on the web site which you can also purchase in an easy to read paperback book from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0990527913/

RV electrical safety is important. Read this book and you may save a life.

Ed
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Old 06-07-2021, 06:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
Be aware that even a Honda 2000 can malfunction resulting in a dangerous surge/over-voltage. Rare, but it has happened. It is better to get or make a bonding plug. Go to any hardware store and get a three pronged plug and a short piece of wire. Connect one end of the wire to the neutral terminal/screw and the other to the ground. Plug it into the generator and plug the trailer into the generator using a 15 to 30 amp adapter. Turn the EMS on. Then start the generator and wait the 2 minutes for the EMS to perform its checks.
I have read here somewhere back that even when in bypass mode the EMS still protects against surge.
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Old 06-07-2021, 08:08 AM   #12
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I have read here somewhere back that even when in bypass mode the EMS still protects against surge.
Correct, per this on page 2 of the EMS-HW30C instructions:

"ByPass: This switch is located on the remote display and allows the user to bypass the EMS in the event of failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled."
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Old 06-07-2021, 09:17 AM   #13
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Correct, per this on page 2 of the EMS-HW30C instructions:

"ByPass: This switch is located on the remote display and allows the user to bypass the EMS in the event of failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled."
I still would not routinely use the EMS in the bypass mode, giving up all other features. IMO, the bonding plug is the better option. As Forrest Gump would say, “It happens.”
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Old 06-07-2021, 09:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
You need a neutral bonding plug for The other outlet on your generator. You can make one or
You can buy one. Then your EMS will Accept the generator like it does when you’re plugged into shore power. The plug costs about $10 at camper dealerships or on line. I have one made by Southwire. That’s the whole answer that you need.
Buy one:
www.microair.net/products/generator-bonding-plug?variant=12272654155860
www.campingworld.com/portable-generator-bonding-plug-118090.html

Or make one:
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Old 06-07-2021, 10:41 AM   #15
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One consideration to keep in mind is that when using a generator to power 120 VAC devices in your trailer (with or without bonding N-G), you do not have a ground system like your home, safety wise with a ground post. That is assuming you do not use a true ground on you generator ground post.
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Old 06-07-2021, 11:21 AM   #16
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I made a bonding plug, that was easy.
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Old 06-07-2021, 04:19 PM   #17
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Back about 35 years ago one of our Recreation youth sports supervisors bought a 1200 or 1300 watt Honda generator. It was to be used to power a “Casey” pitching machine to instruct young Kids on the art of batting baseballs and softballs. There was a regular grounding lug on one corner of the generator. We soldered a heavy wire onto a copper grounding rod and tightened the wire onto the lug, drove the rod down into he dirt. Worked fine and made it so nobody got shocked. Those hot shot 13 and 14 year old boys were pretty good batters but when we’d crank Casey up and throw 90 mph sliders they just could quite make contact. A straight on fastball to me was about 35 mph and I’d hit about one out of ten. Never was much good at baseball but loved the game. That little generator was still working a few years ago when I stopped at the shop must have been about 30 years old at the time.

I ran the batting cage at the professional ballpark a couple times.
The mercenary management got $1.00 or 1.50 for like 20 balls. I didn’t mind feeding the machine from behind the net but I didn’t like running around picking up balls between customers so I’d get a couple kids with no money to shag the balls and then feed them a bucket for free. In my world, that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Word got out that I was liberal in counting the balls and you could earn a bucket working for me. I had the most popular concession out there and turned in the most money. The skinflint manager couldn’t figure out how I did that. He was shallow.
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:18 PM   #18
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i bought a plug thought 9 bucks no big deal- then they charged 10 for shipping i didn't notice - now i feel stupid!
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:19 PM   #19
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so used to prime with no shipping !
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:39 PM   #20
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I needed a new anode this year so went down to a nearby RV dealer. Got both the anode and the bonding plug without paying shipping. The saloon down the street has a good tenderloin. But I’m still restaurant covid shy so didn’t eat there which is my usual MO. I don’t have prime but my kids trade off having it so if I need something they get it for me If I can’t get get it locally. I very much dislike what I view as exorbitant shipping costs. I need a $ 0.67 specialty spring clip that’s used as an agitator in a spreader that I own. The shipping cost from the manufacturing company is $13. I can make my own and probably will.
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