Getting hosed

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by Lanark Camper

My turn to get hosed.....today I noticed cracking on both pig tails on my 2019 trailer. I don’t know why it happened so soon. I’ll check the other rubber propane hose as well. Isn’t leaking at this point. Trailer is just a year and a half old, never left the propane tank cover off so UV isn’t the problem.
Something to inspect even on the newer trailers.
Bob

Me too - looking everything over prior to hitching up for the first time in way too long, a few cracks are starting to show in my original hoses, but they're 5.5 years old so I got good "age-age" (the temporal version of mile-age) out of them. Don't know why others are seeing cracks after just a relatively short time. I ordered up a new pair of pigtails, but couldn't find any without the stainless mesh cover - I like to be able to inspect the naked rubber hoses once in a while, and they're protected from UV living under the tank cover. The main hose from regulator to trailer appliances looks in good shape - still soft and flexible and no cracking, mushy spots, or kinks.

Anybody happen to know offhand a good torque spec for the brass 1/4" NPT to aluminum regulator? I'm always looking for a reason to use my in-lb torque wrench to show my wife that the purchase was justified.

But my main reason for posting is to remind y'all that for the gas lines - use only the yellow LP/propane/gas PTFE ("Teflon") tape on your NPT fittings. I'm sure that this has already been mentioned any number of times, but it certainly bears repeating. Apparently the yellow tape is thicker (4 mils) and has higher tensile strength than the regular white non-gas version.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Lanark Camper

My turn to get hosed.....today I noticed cracking on both pig tails on my 2019 trailer. I don’t know why it happened so soon. I’ll check the other rubber propane hose as well. Isn’t leaking at this point. Trailer is just a year and a half old, never left the propane tank cover off so UV isn’t the problem.
Something to inspect even on the newer trailers.
Bob

Same happened to our new trailer in about the same time span . I think because of EPA rubber is not what it used to be . 2013 and we are on our 3 rd set now . I have considered stainless lines . Maybe . Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

Anybody happen to know offhand a good torque spec for the brass 1/4" NPT to aluminum regulator?

No, because proper tapered pipe thread connections are not determined by torque; correctly tightened threads are engaged to a suitable number of turns. Because the amount of sealant used varies (and fitting machining varies), proper engagement depth also varies, but it is usually given as something like "hand tight plus two turns" (which is terrible because "hand tight" is almost meaningless). It will typically be 4 to 6 turns after thread engages. According to the first reasonable reference that I found today, about 3/8" of threads should be engaged in a 1/4" NPT joint.

You should only need to make the NPT connection to the aluminum regulator body once per side in the life of the regulator, because you can use brass NPT to inverted flare adapters, leave them in the regulator, and only remove and replace the inverted flare connection to change hoses (using common hoses with inverted flare end fittings).

If you use inverted flare fittings, you could use a torque spec for that part of the connection, which appears to be 5 to 6 lb-ft or 6.75 to 9 Nm (for brass). Of course to use a torque wrench on a fitting on the end of a hose being attached to a device, you can't use a socket so you would need to use a crow foot and correct the torque reading for the extra length.

Edit: just found a reference with both flare connection torque specs and the torque wrench correction explanation: Torque Information for Hydraulic Adapters

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

I ordered up a new pair, but couldn't find any without the stainless mesh cover...

Really? I've heard of the mesh (probably braid) covered hose, but never even seen one. In the stores that I've been in it's hard to find anything other than bare rubber hoses. Are you looking for some unusual specification? I see that many (but nowhere near all) of the hoses found online with an NPT end fitting (rather than the inverted flare that I prefer) have the braided cover.

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

No, because proper tapered pipe thread connections are not determined by torque; correctly tightened threads are engaged to a suitable number of turns. Because the amount of sealant used varies (and fitting machining varies), proper engagement depth also varies, but it is usually given as something like "hand tight plus two turns" (which is terrible because "hand tight" is almost meaningless). It will typically be 4 to 6 turns after thread engages. According to the first reasonable reference that I found today, about 3/8" of threads should be engaged in a 1/4" NPT joint.

Point well taken - thanks.

Given the soft brass and aluminum involved, I was thinking more in terms of setting the torque wrench to limit the maximum torque applied.

I'll just pretend to use the torque wrench and crow's foot while the wife's watching.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by Lanark Camper

The hoses are manufactured in Canada, they have a date of manufacture of 08/04/2019. I’ve sent pictures of the label and cracks in the hose to the manufacturer, and cc’d Escape.
It maybe a quality control issue they are not aware of. I think I’ll check the hose leaving the regulator next !

If they reply to me I’ll post it here.

Bob

Hi: Lanark Camper... Living in Ontario means you can't be a "Hosier" Eh? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

I'll just pretend to use the torque wrench and crow's foot while the wife's watching.

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: Lanark Camper... Living in Ontario means you can't be a "Hosier" Eh? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

And then, demonymistically speaking, there are all the Hoosiers in Indiana.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

Me too - looking everything over prior to hitching up for the first time in way too long, a few cracks are starting to show in my original hoses, but they're 5.5 years old so I got good "age-age" (the temporal version of mile-age) out of them. Don't know why others are seeing cracks after just a relatively short time. I ordered up a new pair of pigtails, but couldn't find any without the stainless mesh cover - I like to be able to inspect the naked rubber hoses once in a while, and they're protected from UV living under the tank cover. The main hose from regulator to trailer appliances looks in good shape - still soft and flexible and no cracking, mushy spots, or kinks.

Have had good luck with Mr. Heater pigtails if you are looking for a quality hose
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Pro.../dp/B000LNJQ0Q

[Lanark Camper]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: Lanark Camper... Living in Ontario means you can't be a "Hosier" Eh? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Bob

[Lanark Camper]

Yesterday afternoon I sent an email with pictures of the cracked pigtails to Fairview. This morning I had an email from the sales manager asking for my mailing address as they would like to replace them.
Very responsible company.

Bob

[cpaharley2008]

Good to know........

[ekschlanger@yahoo.com]

I bought my trailer in 2021. It came with rusted propane tanks. I caught that. They are date stamped, and they were a few years old. I complained to Escape, and they paid for local replacement. One year later, I noticed the Fairview propane pigtails were severely cracked. I complained to Escape, and they sent replacements. Then I noticed that the original pigtails have a made date of 02/08/21, which "IF" I read correctly in Canada format that means were made on August 8, 2002, meaning they were 19 years old when they were included in my trailer. Could that be? The Fairview replacements are dated 22/08/22, which can only mean August 8, 2022. Something is wrong here, I'm not sure what. I'm going to contact Escape about the issue.

[Ron in BC]

I'm surprised by this whole situation. Firstly because Fairview Fittings has been in business for a long time, does volume business and I've never had any problem with their propane hoses over the years or had any problem with mine, even when several years old. Which is why I say that the situation is surprising.

There's obviously a problem, perhaps a change in supplier with maybe a poor quality product.

This has happened too many times now so I hope that you get some answers, either from ETI or Fairview.

Ron

[WillyB]

Our 2022 21C picked up on 10/24/23 had cracked hoses by the same company that were dated Feb 2022. Less than 1 year old and the were cracked just like yours.

I purchased a set myself from MB Sturgis that are made here in St. Louis. I also complained to Escape and not only did they send me new hoses but they sent the entire regulator assembly. How awesome was that!!!!

My guess is that rubber hoses pick tail makers as a general group are probably getting some inferior rubber hoses.

[BobG]

I just checked the hoses that connect to the propane tanks on my 2021 Escape. They are dated 10/12/20 and are cracked.

The hose from the regulator to the copper tubing is dated 03/12/20 and I didn't see any cracks but couldn't see most of it.

I have not checked the hose to the range or furnace.

[SRS]

The dreaded cracked pigtail strikes again. Received trailer August 1, 2022. Refilled a tank today and found several cracks in the rubber hose. Fortunately I had a spare but ordered 2 new Marshall Excelsior pigtails. I figure the other hose will crack soon and I'll still have an spare to carry.

[BobG]

I contacted Fairview Services at Fairviewfittings.ca about my cracked hoses because Escape told me to contact the manufacturer.

I asked if the cracks were ok and I asked if they had specifications for the minimum radius their hose can be bent. They ignored whether the cracks are ok.

They did however responded to me and to Toronto Sales with a sketch showing hoses with different combinations of fitting for different hose configurations. Hand drawn on it was an indication that 8" radius is the tightest bend but there was nothing to indicate what hose they were referencing. I asked for more clarification.

Either it is faulty hose or it is installed with too tight of bend. The only way to know which is to get the manufacturer to provide installation instructions that include the minimum radius.

It would be nice to get this resolved so Escape quits installing hoses that break.

[SRS]

Originally Posted by BobG

I contacted Fairview Services at Fairviewfittings.ca about my cracked hoses because Escape told me to contact the manufacturer.

I asked if the cracks were ok and I asked if they had specifications for the minimum radius their hose can be bent. They ignored whether the cracks are ok.

They did however responded to me and to Toronto Sales with a sketch showing hoses with different combinations of fitting for different hose configurations. Hand drawn on it was an indication that 8" radius is the tightest bend but there was nothing to indicate what hose they were referencing. I asked for more clarification.

Either it is faulty hose or it is installed with too tight of bend. The only way to know which is to get the manufacturer to provide installation instructions that include the minimum radius.

It would be nice to get this resolved so Escape quits installing hoses that break.

This isn't my first trailer with the dual propane tanks and 12" pigtails. The previous trailer had a similar bend in the pigtails and yet they lasted at least 5 years. On that trailer the tanks weren't covered although it was small enough to keep in our garage. I think the problem is an inferior outer cover. Based on my own experience the pigtails should last 5 or 6 years. The cracked pigtail wasn't leaking, I just don't feel comfortable with cracks on the pigtails with the severe bend. YMMV

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by SRS

Based on my own experience the pigtails should last 5 or 6 years. The cracked pigtail wasn't leaking, I just don't feel comfortable with cracks on the pigtails with the severe bend. YMMV

I've had that type of line last so much longer than that. This current situation is nothing short of bizarre and completely unacceptable. At some point I hope Fairview is held accountable for this inferior product.

The first time that I replaced a hard plumbed hot water tank I had a lot of wiggle and jiggle to get things lined up. Then a plumber friend told me to put a loop in the line. It gives much more flexibility and eliminates the tight bend in close quarters. My lines are OK but if I have to replace them I'll be using a loop. I don't like tight bends at the best of times.

Ron