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Old 05-04-2021, 05:12 PM   #281
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2020 21NE same issue sheared at the gray tank drain toward the valve. Found this thread helpful.


Picked up trailer in February 2021. Has 1500 miles.
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Old 05-06-2021, 10:49 AM   #282
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FWIW: a picture of the drain line on our 2020 (October) 21NE
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Old 05-06-2021, 11:25 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HANK View Post
2020 21NE same issue sheared at the gray tank drain toward the valve. Found this thread helpful.


Picked up trailer in February 2021. Has 1500 miles.
Does your 21 have the flex connector and/or additional bracket/support that has previously been described as the factory fix for grey tank plumbing breaks?
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Old 05-06-2021, 11:29 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by bborzell View Post
Does your 21 have the flex connector and/or additional bracket/support that has previously been described as the factory fix for grey tank plumbing breaks?



It did not come with those fixes, I'm adding the flexible coupler myself.
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Old 05-06-2021, 11:38 AM   #285
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Interesting. When this issue was reported some months ago, I called Escape and asked if our November 2021 delivery 21 would have the grey water plumbing fixes and was told that it had been incorporated on all new units; that was in late 2020.

Perhaps yours missed the transition to the fix.
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Old 08-26-2021, 06:35 PM   #286
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Thumbs up tweaks to latest builds?

Just FYI, pics showing a flexible coupler and drain support on the grey tank drainline of my 2021 5.0 which was delivered yesterday.

Perhaps ETI is implementing some tweaks / improvements in this area?

(thanks to David Murphy for spotting this on my trailer)
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Alan E grey tank flexible coupler.jpg   Alan E grey tank drain support.jpg  
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Old 08-26-2021, 09:40 PM   #287
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As I mentioned that I would in this thread some time ago, I pre-emptively installed a flex section on the grey water drain pipe on our E21. Now that I have done that, I will note that the side of the tank is more flexible than the flex joint. If I try to bend the flex joint, the side of the tank bends and the flex joint does almost nothing.

My take now is that the flex joint can deal with a bit of mis-alignment, but the rigid support screwed to the frame is also necessary. I will put it in next.
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Old 08-27-2021, 12:22 PM   #288
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grey dank drain support and coiled wire in cab by the door

Thanks for the heads up. I just checked my April delivery and it also has the additional support.
The coiled up wire in the cabinet just inside the door does not have 12 volts to it for the fan I was about to install so I guess I'll pull power from the over bed cabinet that is just ahead of the one by the door. A little too hot to continue today.
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Old 10-26-2021, 07:15 PM   #289
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We are. We have a 2020 21C
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Old 10-26-2021, 07:21 PM   #290
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We are having the leak issue from the top of our gray tank. 2020 21C. It seems like it would be where the kitchen sink drains into the gray tank. Impossible to see where it’s coming from though.
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Old 10-26-2021, 11:01 PM   #291
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hope to new factory support fixes the issue, but looks lame to me? the main weight is to the left of the dump valves in the black water drain pipe hanging down from the trailer. appears to me, the way it's repaired, the support is a pivot for the grey water pipe going into the grey water tank to still put a lot of stress on the fitting. just me, but I would support it to the left of the dump valves like it was originally supported, but anchor it better to the floor above, that is like Casita does it. support is better than the original weak support, but I see trouble down the road, lols, cheers
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Old 10-26-2021, 11:38 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bborzell View Post
Interesting. When this issue was reported some months ago, I called Escape and asked if our November 2021 delivery 21 would have the grey water plumbing fixes and was told that it had been incorporated on all new units; that was in late 2020.

Perhaps yours missed the transition to the fix.
That must be it.
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Old 11-06-2021, 10:48 AM   #293
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I noticed water leaking through the sealant around the ABS fitting into the grey tank on our drain outlet as discussed in this thread and contacted Escape for the fix. This is what they sent me:
___________________________________
Step 1: Cut the 1 ˝” pipe halfway between the drain valve and tank.
Step 2: Heat up the sealant with a heat gun and unthread the fitting and cut pipe.
Step 3: Install flexible coupling onto pipe that is attached to the drain valve.
Step 4: Add sealant to the new fitting and thread back into the tank.
Step 5: Measure the pipe to make the connection and glue the pipe into the fitting.

Step 6: Slide the flexible coupling onto both pipes and tighten the clamps.
Step 7: Leak check.

Parts required for the repair.:
1 ˝” coupling
1 ˝” pipe
1 ˝” adapter
Sikaflex sealant
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In carrying out the fix I made the following observations and changes:

1. It is easy to cut the pipe with an upside down hack saw when laying prone on the ground. As I went to twist the fitting out I found it was completely broken at the threads and the sealant easily came off the outside of the tank with the fitting;

2. The threaded section of the ABS fitting that was in the tank fitting threads was stuck. I went to Canadian Tire and bought a Tub Drain Extractor tool as suggested by another poster earlier in this thread and although it gripped the piece it would not budge the broken off section free. Escapes' instructions said to heat the sealant with a heat gun and this was necessary. I pointed the heat gun inside the fitting and had to heat it long enough for the sealant in the threads to soften. I had to get it quite hot but I could still touch it with a bare finger. The Tub Drain Extractor tool then did its job well and the broken piece came out. The remaining Sikaflex sealant was easily brushed out of the threads without scraping.

3. I noticed the threads of the ABS fitting did not break right in the corner of the threads and the flange as my engineering background would have me expect, but about 1/8" onto the tank fitting. I also noted that the poly tank fitting had four bumps or lugs that stick out from its face around the fitting which were likely for the tool the the fitting is spun into the tank with. (For those who are not aware, the fittings are installed and bonded into the tanks by spinning them at high speed to thermally melt them together.) These bumps stopped the ABS fitting flange from sitting flush against the tank flange. As a result any bending or vibration in the pipe would load the threads in bending where they go into the tank fitting and not in tension which would spread the material stresses better. I cut the bumps off easily with an Olfa knife and the ABS fitting then turned in till the flanges were flush. This should relieve some of the bending stresses at the threads. I think this is very important to reduce failures.

4. I contacted a local RV repair shop to see if they had the Sikaflex sealant Escape advised to use and told them what I wanted it for. He was very helpful and advised me that they regularly have to deal with ABS fittings threaded into poly tanks when doing drain plumbing work on RV's. He said that although they use Sikaflex for many RV applications this is not one of them. He said that they use silicone as it does not adhere well to the poly tank fitting but does provide a good seal for the threads so they don't leak. He said they coat both threads and turn the ABS fitting in snug. It seals the treads but, as it does not bond to the poly very well, it is easier to turn the ABS fitting out in the future if need be (i.e.: no heat gun). They have been doing this for many years and have never had a customer come back with a problem or a leak. I have dealt with this company a number of times in the past and have found their information is always good. I lightly coated the threads with silicone as he described and put a bead of silicone under the flange which squished out as I tightened the fitting in. I smoothed out the caulking and it looks good.

5. When cutting the new section of ABS pipe to go into the ABS fitting I made sure I had the maximum gap between the pipe ends that still allowed the flexible adaptor to fit with the hose clamps on it well over the pipe ends. For the adaptor I had this gap was about one inch. This is important as it will allow a little more flexibility in the pipe section than if the pipe ends are butted right together. The increase flexibility should reduce fatigue loads on the ABS fitting threads from bending and vibration.

So that is what I did. I do think adding a support from the frame to the pipe as indicated by previous posters is a god idea as it will further reduce the load from pipe movement into the fitting threads and I will likely do something like this when it gets warmer again.

Hope this is helpful to anyone carrying out this repair.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:43 PM   #294
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Excellent description, Mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark B1 View Post
...I also noted that the poly tank fitting had four bumps or lugs that stick out from its face around the fitting which were likely for the tool the the fitting is spun into the tank with. (For those who are not aware, the fittings are installed and bonded into the tanks by spinning them at high speed to thermally melt them together.) These bumps stopped the ABS fitting flange from sitting flush against the tank flange. As a result any bending or vibration in the pipe would load the threads in bending where they go into the tank fitting and not in tension which would spread the material stresses better. I cut the bumps off easily with an Olfa knife and the ABS fitting then turned in till the flanges were flush. This should relieve some of the bending stresses at the threads. I think this is very important to reduce failures.
Tapered pipe threads are not intended to bottom out, so those bumps are not a problem - the faces of the fittings are not supposed to touch. A properly designed piping installation does not put enough bending load on the joint to be a problem; the fix to this typical Escape failure is the flexible coupling and suitable pipe supports.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:52 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Excellent description, Mark.


Tapered pipe threads are not intended to bottom out, so those bumps are not a problem - the faces of the fittings are not supposed to touch. A properly designed piping installation does not put enough bending load to be a problem; the fix to this typical Escape failure is the flexible coupling and suitable pipe supports.
I would agree if it was pipe thread, but it is actually a straight thread. It is basically a sink tail piece adapter fitting without the nut and taper ring. Therefore tightening it in flush does make a difference. I don't think people realize it is a straight thread and until Escape told me what to buy I did not realize that either as I had not removed mine yet.
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:03 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Mark B1 View Post
I would agree if it was pipe thread, but it is actually a straight thread. It is basically a sink tail piece adapter fitting without the nut and taper ring. Therefore tightening it in flush does make a difference. I don't think people realize it is a straight thread and until Escape told me what to buy I did not realize that either as I had not removed mine yet.
Ah, then I might be completely off. I don't know why ETI would use a non-standard fitting... and is the spin-welded tank fitting straight threaded, or is this a mish-mash of inappropriate parts? The waste plumbing problems at ETI are so long-running and clearly the result of poor construction that nothing is really surprising at this point.

I only looked for a few minutes, but I couldn't find a straight-thread (NPS) spin-welded fitting in this size range (1-1/4" or 1-1/2"). I suspect that the port has a tapered thread (which is why it is not shaped for flange contact) and the right solution is stil a tapered ABS fitting into the tank port - and not bottomed - with a properly supported pipe using a flexible section for isolation. Of course, if the port (tank fitting) actually has a straight thread then an NPS pipe fitting is right.
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:15 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Ah, then I'm completely off. I don't know why ETI would use a non-standard fitting.. and is the spin-welded tank fitting straight threaded, or is this a mish-mash of inappropriate parts? The waste plumbing problems at ETI are so long-running and clearly the result of poor construction that nothing is really surprising at this point.
The tank fitting was a straight thread as well. I don't see it as a big issue except that you want to turn it in till the threads are seated all the way to the flange, and not out a ways. It is important though that anyone carrying out this repair use the correct fitting to match the tank.
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Old 11-07-2021, 11:37 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Mark B1 View Post
The tank fitting was a straight thread as well. I don't see it as a big issue except that you want to turn it in till the threads are seated all the way to the flange, and not out a ways. It is important though that anyone carrying out this repair use the correct fitting to match the tank.
How do you tell which fitting you have?
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:13 PM   #299
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I would assume all are straight as this is what Escape said to buy. If it is pipe thread the threads will taper (ie: taper to a smaller diameter at the end).
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Old 11-07-2021, 01:40 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Mark B1 View Post
It is basically a sink tail piece adapter fitting without the nut and taper ring.
Just for those not familiar with pipe threads...
Those slip-joint fittings with straight male threads seal against the outside of a plain tube (the sink tailpiece) with the tapered ring; the threads are just to mechanically work with the nut to compress the ring, and are not intended to used as the seal. Straight pipe threads are sometimes used for sealing, even jammed into tapered female threads, but they work poorly for that purpose.
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