Richard's second photo is very helpful, showing that the broken part is the ABS male-thread adapter and not the spin-welded female-threaded bushing.
I'll admit to not reading every word of the posts since mine, but it appears that Richard has this all understood and worked out, including that
the spin-welded fitting is not broken so no tank repair is necessary
the broken ABS adapter needs to be removed and replaced
avoiding further problems will require that piping is better-supported, or (preferably) isolated from the tank fitting by at least one flex joint.
Just as with the black tank drain pipe leakage problems, it seems likely that there will be more of these incidents due to a design and construction deficiency, but it's fixable.
As a fellow engineer, I've never been happy with putting screw holes in the bottom web of the frame weakening it and creating a potential failure point. Also, not happy with putting screws in the fiberglass shell as they tend to fracture the gelcoat and pull out over time unless through bolted.
If Escape wants to improve the piping hangers, they should add frame brackets to hang the piping from.
I guarantee I will add hangers to the tanks and piping if they don’t. Plumbing straps On the piping will not work for me. I hope the wood framing under bed is also proper, otherwise I will have to repair as you did.
I feel for those that have neither the knowledge or means to make proper repairs.
For the engineers, mechanics and general sticklers: I've been using the words "shear" and "tension" interchangeably. Please forgive my transgression.
On that subject, if you take a close up look at the picture in post #4, that's a pretty clean break across the pipe section, almost on the glue joint. Any guesses as to whether it's a shear or tension caused failure?
Shear and tension are orthogonal (which isn't quite the same as "opposite" ), but the problem is probably not strictly either of those. If the attached pipe is subject to a bending force it will apply tension to one side of the joint and compression to the other side; a likely failure mode is that the side under tension rips apart and the rip runs right across the whole circumference of the fitting. It would be very difficult to shear off a fitting like this, and it would likely be more of a mess.
Durn, when my21c comes in December I think I am going to wrap the exposed joints with F4 silicone tape.
An external sealant like that, similar to what Escape has been using at the black tank outlet, is only a bandage for a poor threaded joint leaking - it does not fix the structural problem causing failure that Richard has experienced.
If Escape wants to improve the piping hangers, they should add frame brackets to hang the piping from.
I agree. The second choice would be to drill for screws (or preferably insert nuts) near mid-height on the side of a frame member, where the stress is minimal.
Only a couple of years ago Escape moved from putting huge holes for body-mounting bolts right through the frame rail vertically (remember the failing 19' frames?) to using brackets welded to the side of the frame rails. This is another level of finer detail in structural design improvement.
Do you mean Karl Kenney? He is the President of Escape Trailer Industries LP, but the company is now owned by KV Private Equity. Escape no longer has a person or couple as owner-operator... which changes the customer relations dynamic somewhat.
Why not? It's awkward for a two-post lift due to the height of frame adapters needed, the need to reach in to the frame past the wheels, and the sheer size of the trailer (perhaps too wide for a common automotive lift), but nothing stops it from going up on a four-post vehicle lift just as Escape uses during assembly... although of course it has to be big enough and have enough headroom. Most RV shops seem to work entirely on the floor (which is not problem for many RVs, especially motorhomes so large that you can slide underneath without even jacking them up), so suitable lifts may not be common.
the new flange was attached to the tank with PVC Cement
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
I'm surprised that would hold. Polyethylene and PVC cement are not known to be compatible. The proper way to fix this for the long term is to have someone spin weld a new fitting into the tank.
While almost nothing sticks to polyethylene and spin-welding is the best solution, I'm not so surprised.
This is part of something I posted to Fiberglass RV many years ago:
Quote:
I had a significant crack in the front side of my B1700 greywater tank...
I did some experimentation, and in the end used fiberglass tape (2" wide strip of fiberglass cloth) bedded in solvent cement to fix it. There is solvent cement for ABS and PVC piping - I got the two or three types I found in the plumbing section of a hardware store and I think I ended up with the PVC stuff (although I agree that the tank is likely polyethylene rather than PVC). These solvents seem to be loaded with some solids (they are not just volatile solvent and do build up some material) and work by partially dissolving the base material (the tank plastic). I knew I had the right stuff when I found the one which became bonded to the tank as it dried, rather than just forming an easily peeled off layer.
So solvent welding to polyethylene (which is not the same as using an adhesive) is not normal practice, but can work. Experimentation with different solvent "cements" may be required.
Trailer: E 21 2019 Tow Vehicle: 2019 4Runner Limited
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Why not? It's awkward for a two-post lift due to the height of frame adapters needed, the need to reach in to the frame past the wheels, and the sheer size of the trailer (perhaps too wide for a common automotive lift), but nothing stops it from going up on a four-post vehicle lift just as Escape uses during assembly... although of course it has to be big enough and have enough headroom. Most RV shops seem to work entirely on the floor (which is not problem for many RVs, especially motorhomes so large that you can slide underneath without even jacking them up), so suitable lifts may not be common.
"so suitable lifts may not be common". That's all you needed to have written.
Trailer: E 21 2019 Tow Vehicle: 2019 4Runner Limited
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Do you mean Karl Kenney? He is the President of Escape Trailer Industries LP, but the company is now owned by KV Private Equity. Escape no longer has a person or couple as owner-operator... which changes the customer relations dynamic somewhat.
Please. Let's not quibble about titles. The problem I am having isn't going to disappear because of the entity issue.
Please. Let's not quibble about titles. The problem I am having isn't going to disappear because of the entity issue.
Of course the title doesn't change the plumbing problem, but it's not just a title.
In at least hundreds and possibly thousands of posts in this forum over the years members have remarked about the importance of the company being owned and operated by its founders; that is not the current situation. On a more practical level, if someone wants to reach Karl, or just "the person in charge", they need to ask for the president rather than the owner.
Trailer: 2019 Escape 21 and a less than thrilled 2017 Tacoma dragging it around the countryside
Posts: 74
Removed broken ABS male from spun-in bushing
I wanted to spin out the broken bit but would have spent half a day building a tool for the job so I ended up sawing out a section of the Broken off ABS male then the rest came out easy. I did do a wee bit of damage to the threads in the spun-in bushing (which is why I would have preferred to spin it out rather than hacking away at it), but a couple of things about that:
1. I think the thread sealant will keep it from leaking.
2. I could live with a (tiny) drip if I had to and anyway the solids in the grey water would likely plug any small leak over time.
3. Most importantly, the installation of the DWV flexible PVC expansion coupling between the grey tank and it's dump valve will allow for a quick and easy removal and re-sealing of the threads if necessary.
Most RV shops seem to work entirely on the floor (which is not problem for many RVs, especially motorhomes so large that you can slide underneath without even jacking them up), so suitable lifts may not be common.
Not even required for an Escape. I've done a ton of work and mods on my two Escapes just by sliding under them without raising them. Including front to rear under the axles. I usually, not always, just throw down a piece of cardboard to make the sliding easier.
Trailer: E 21 2019 Tow Vehicle: 2019 4Runner Limited
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
I prefer that misinformation be corrected rather than spread through repetition in the forums.
Very sage advice. Misinformation has become rule rather than the exception south of the 49th parallel.
Let me rephrase one paragraph from post #10.
"I talked to the President of Escape Trailer Industries LP for 30 minutes. A fine agreeable person I'll be the first to admit. He promised to get back to me [Misleading. It wasn't really in the form of a promise]. Instead I received another call from Dustin. Basically he repeated what he had already said before: 'Take it to an RV dealer, get an estimate...."
Trailer: E 21 2019 Tow Vehicle: 2019 4Runner Limited
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Not even required for an Escape. I've done a ton of work and mods on my two Escapes just by sliding under them without raising them. Including front to rear under the axles. I usually, not always, just throw down a piece of cardboard to make the sliding easier.
Ron
Let me know how that goes removing all of the foam insulation and dropping the gray tank.
Well guys, is it recommended that when my new 21c arrives, that I put in a flexible rubber Sleeve close to 5he tank outlet to allow for movement in my grey, and fresh water tanks. I will not have the insulation.
Also use proper support pipe clamps lieu of straps.
Let me know how that goes removing all of the foam insulation and dropping the gray tank.
Fortunately for me I don't like the factory foam so that won't be a problem and the foam that I installed still provides full access. I can't see dropping the gray tank would be an issue, looks pretty accessible to me.
But if height to work was an issue then I'd just roll on to the four 2" 2x10s that I use for levelling. I can't see that a hoist would ever be needed.
), but the problem is probably not strictly either of those. If the attached pipe is subject to a bending force it will apply tension to one side of the joint and compression to the other side; a likely failure mode is that the side under tension rips apart and the rip runs right across the whole circumference of the fitting. It would be very difficult to shear off a fitting like this, and it would likely be more of a mess.
I've done a ton of work and mods on my two Escapes just by sliding under them without raising them. Including front to rear under the axles. I usually, not always, just throw down a piece of cardboard to make the sliding easier.
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