Grey tank drain line separation

[rjreeves]

Originally Posted by 7th Heaven

I found a hole saw bit that matched the diameter of the flange.

using a scrap block of wood , I saw to cut a hole through. This was used as a guide to drill out the old flange.

the new flange was attached to the tank with PVC Cement

Brave Soul cutting out the old flange. I'm going to attempt an R&R on the broken off bit inside the flange.

[rjreeves]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Wow,
Now I'm getting concerned as these 3 are all 2019 E21 models (same as mine). Mine was produced under the old regime, but perhaps some absentee presence by Reace and Co was involved. With the spray on insulation shown by Telescopist, that would be a pain to repair. I remember the early E21 had issues with the black tank under the bed, but these are, to my recollection, the first E21 grey tank issues. Perhaps a sticky on this thread to keep it prominent until other's respond.

FWIW at the risk of stating the obvious I'd like to point out my problem is not a leak in a still intact, installed section of tank-to-plumbing component, which seems to be an issue for some, but rather a completely broken off section of pipe at the tank-to-drain interface.

I've inspected the ABS section between the tank flange and the dump valve for any evidence of the pipe having taken a hard enough thumping (self-inflicted wound, shear) from the outside that would have lead to it's breaking away as it did, but no scuffs or chips are apparent. However, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Per Dcboyd's post above, it's hard to imagine that the installed downspout, through the floor, into the grey tank would allow for sufficient lateral motion of the grey tank to cause a failure (tension) but additional securing of the tank is something to consider.

My intent is to install a rubberized flex bushing into the repair.

[rjreeves]

Originally Posted by 7th Heaven

Purchased a new Flange:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I found a hole saw bit that matched the diameter of the flange.

using a scrap block of wood , I saw to cut a hole through. This was used as a guide to drill out the old flange.

the new flange was attached to the tank with PVC Cement

to remove the old dump valve:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FYUNGA

was used to cut the Pipe and was replaced with
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002N5L9T6

Any idea how many miles on your trailer when you discovered the problem?

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rjreeves

My intent is to install a rubberized flex bushing into the repair.

I assume that your trailer is still under warranty? Have you contacted Escape to have them recommend someone local to spin weld a new fitting on your tank?

Spin welding a fitting on your tank is the permanent way to repair the damage - anything else is going to be temporary and fail over time.

The piping is not supported well enough to prevent pipe fracture due to stress. It needs to be supported such that the piping cannot move. Below are links to a good way to accomplish this.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post285522

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post286142

[rjreeves]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

I assume that your trailer is still under warranty?



Have you contacted Escape to have them recommend someone local to spin weld a new fitting on your tank?

Spin welding a fitting on your tank is the permanent way to repair the damage - anything else is going to be temporary and fail over time.

The piping is not supported well enough to prevent pipe fracture due to stress. It needs to be supported such that the piping cannot move.

I presume so, but it's a long way to Chilliwack.


No. I've met the people at the RV repair centers. I wouldn't let them touch my E21 with a 10 foot pole (all apologies to those of you who actually know what you're doing, both of you).


The spin-welded fitting is still nicely attached to the grey tank as far as I can tell. My problem is removing the threaded piece that has broken off inside it.


Rather than making the whole thing even more rigid I intend to give it more room to move about via the rubber flex bushing. Fighting the movement (it is a moving, rolling, shaking portable thing after all) I think is the wrong way to go.

[Dcboyd]

I have sent ETI a note requesting an additional strap on both the grey and fresh water tanks. I expressed my concern and of course offered to pay for it. Sent pictures of the broken pipes to refresh their minds and also to express my desire not to do the personal DIY repairs as shown in the video.

I as others here have a background in structural engineering.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Dcboyd

I have sent ETI a note requesting an additional strap on both the grey and fresh water tanks. I expressed my concern and of course offered to pay for it. Sent pictures of the broken pipes to refresh their minds and also to express my desire not to do the personal DIY repairs as shown in the video.

I as others here have a background in structural engineering.

Let us know what Escape's response is.........

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Dcboyd

I have sent ETI a note requesting an additional strap on both the grey and fresh water tanks. I expressed my concern and of course offered to pay for it. Sent pictures of the broken pipes to refresh their minds and also to express my desire not to do the personal DIY repairs as shown in the video.

I as others here have a background in structural engineering.

As a fellow engineer, I've never been happy with putting screw holes in the bottom web of the frame weakening it and creating a potential failure point. Also, not happy with putting screws in the fiberglass shell as they tend to fracture the gelcoat and pull out over time unless through bolted.

If Escape wants to improve the piping hangers, they should add frame brackets to hang the piping from.

[P&L]

I would think this is under warranty? Not sure what Escape does now, but in the past I have taken my trailer to a local shop and they fixed different issues so I can be on the road. Escape refunded me, but mind you I was in contact with them prior ...

[Telescopist]

Originally Posted by rjreeves

FWIW at the risk of stating the obvious I'd like to point out my problem is not a leak in a still intact, installed section of tank-to-plumbing component, which seems to be an issue for some, but rather a completely broken off section of pipe at the tank-to-drain interface.

Understood. Thanks.

Per Dcboyd's post above, it's hard to imagine that the installed downspout, through the floor, into the grey tank would allow for sufficient lateral motion of the grey tank to cause a failure (tension) but additional securing of the tank is something to consider.

If you look closely in the image I submitted where I was gnawing away at the insulation on the side of the tank, I exposed one of the metal straps which fixes the tank to the frame. More to the point the tank is embedded in foam so lateral motion of any kind would be problematic to say the least.

The tank itself is surprisingly flimsy. I was able to push it in with my finger. I wouldn't rule out that the tank itself has failed. Perhaps the threaded fitting was cross threaded.(?) How I'll ever get to the bottom of this (or the top) without tearing out the floor is beyond me. Three hours on my back hacking away at this foam was enough for me.

Just to rule out that the leak might be come from a location other than the top of the tank, I performed two tests. I tilted the trailer first toward the passenger's side then filled the the fresh water tank - basically kept the garden hose on all time during this test. I turned the faucet on in the kitchen and kept it on. Eventually water began to drip out of the insulation approximate to the location of the sink drain. I maneuvered the trailer so it was tilted to the drivers side. Went through the same procedure. This time a nice stream of water emerged from the insulation on the driver's side.

This is a warranty issue but how to exercise the terms is another issue altogether.

Knowing what I know now, I would never have shelled out $1000 for the spray foam insulation. It was a dumb decision.

[Telescopist]

Originally Posted by P&L

I would think this is under warranty? Not sure what Escape does now, but in the past I have taken my trailer to a local shop and they fixed different issues so I can be on the road. Escape refunded me, but mind you I was in contact with them prior ...

Please go back an read my post #10. The saga related to contacting Escape Industries is laid out. This trailer cannot be put on a lift. Three local RV places won't touch it. Nor am I particularly keen about them touching either. I'm stuck. At least for the moment.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Telescopist

Understood. Thanks.



If you look closely in the image I submitted where I was gnawing away at the insulation on the side of the tank, I exposed one of the metal straps which fixes the tank to the frame. More to the point the tank is embedded in foam so lateral motion of any kind would be problematic to say the least.

The tank itself is surprisingly flimsy. I was able to push it in with my finger. I wouldn't rule out that the tank itself has failed. Perhaps the threaded fitting was cross threaded.(?) How I'll ever get to the bottom of this (or the top) without tearing out the floor is beyond me. Three hours on my back hacking away at this foam was enough for me.

Just to rule out that the leak might be come from a location other than the top of the tank, I performed two tests. I tilted the trailer first toward the passenger's side then filled the the fresh water tank - basically kept the garden hose on all time during this test. I turned the faucet on in the kitchen and kept it on. Eventually water began to drip out of the insulation approximate to the location of the sink drain. I maneuvered the trailer so it was tilted to the drivers side. Went through the same procedure. This time a nice stream of water emerged from the insulation on the driver's side.

This is a warranty issue but how to exercise the terms is another issue altogether.

Knowing what I know now, I would never have shelled out $1000 for the spray foam insulation. It was a dumb decision.

If this helps...

Here are pics of the front, back and side of the grey tank. The area that you have removed the foam from seems to be the shower connection side (3rd pic).

On my trailer the kitchen sink connection to the tank is on top of the tank and cannot be seen from under the trailer - the only way to fix that is to drop the tank.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by 7th Heaven

the new flange was attached to the tank with PVC Cement

I'm surprised that would hold. Polyethylene and PVC cement are not known to be compatible. The proper way to fix this for the long term is to have someone spin weld a new fitting into the tank.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Telescopist

Knowing what I know now, I would never have shelled out $1000 for the spray foam insulation. It was a dumb decision.

The spray foam has always been a concern of mine for owners over the long term. It seems to be a marginal benefit while everything is working fine and then is a nightmare when something goes wrong and needs access.

[Telescopist]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

If this helps...

Here are pics of the front, back and side of the grey tank. The area that you have removed the foam from seems to be the shower connection side (3rd pic).

On my trailer the kitchen sink connection to the tank is on top of the tank and cannot be seen from under the trailer - the only way to fix that is to drop the tank.

Yes. I have understood the problem for the last 3 weeks or so. I neglected to mention that the portion of pipe I exposed came from the shower/sink. I ruled out the leak coming from that fitting once I had removed the foam from around it. Thanks for the images.

From an engineering/plumbing point of view Escape screwed up. They should have place the down tube toward the the approximate center of the base cabinet floor. Then added a inspection cover.

[Telescopist]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

The spray foam has always been a concern of mine for owners over the long term. It seems to be a marginal benefit while everything is working fine and then is a nightmare when something goes wrong and needs access.

I second the marginal benefit part. We camped at a remote site in Potter County, PA this past weekend. The temperature dropped down into the upper 20's. The floor was freezing cold when I got out of bed to take a leak in the middle of the night.

[7th Heaven]

Originally Posted by rjreeves

Brave Soul cutting out the old flange. I'm going to attempt an R&R on the broken off bit inside the flange.

... The longest part of the repair was researching and testing that part of the repair.

[7th Heaven]

Originally Posted by rjreeves

Any idea how many miles on your trailer when you discovered the problem?

this all happened last year so I would guess ~15K

[cpaharley2008]

tif-texas,
Is that a Hepvo valve I see along the frame?

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

tif-texas,
Is that a Hepvo valve I see along the frame?

I installed that Hepvo as soon as I got the trailer home from Chilliwack in 2017.

I was used to the Casita that had a Hepvo on the shower drain and assumed that I didn't need to close the shower drain plug when traveling. Well, as everyone knows, that's how you get gray water splashed out the bathroom door and all over the trailer floor.

Now I'm not sure where the shower drain plug is as we never use it since the Hepvo was installed.