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04-19-2021, 07:43 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Haslet, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 174
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Ground Fault Follies
Last week we took our 5.0TA out of the garage where we store it for a spring cleaning, because we had put it away dirty after our last trip. We washed it and then put it back in the garage, plugging it back in as usual. Within about 10 minutes, the lights in the garage went out. I quickly determined that the Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt outlet in the garage had tripped. I reset it and about 10 minutes later it tripped again. Even though the GFCI outlet was less than 3 years old, I assumed that it must have failed, because I couldn’t imagine how the trailer could cause the problem. To confirm this, I plugged the trailer into a different GFCI outlet on my house. About 10 minutes later, that one tripped.
My next theory was that water had gotten somewhere it shouldn’t when we washed the trailer, and I let it dry over night. Next day the results were the same. By flipping circuit breakers, I determined that the problem only happened when the converter circuit breaker was on. I concluded that something had failed in the converter.
This was not all bad. It just so happens that last fall, based on discussion on this forum, I had purchased a Wildkat PD4655 converter replacement, but hadn’t gotten around to installing it. Now seemed like the right time.
I replaced the original WFCO converter with the Wildkat, sure that this would solve the problem. It did not.
But while replacing the converter, I noticed that there was another wire on the converter circuit breaker. I could not trace the wire through the rat’s nest under the bench, but finally decided that it went to an outlet behind the refrigerator that the refrigerator plugs into.
Again based on wisdom from this forum, I decided that the refrigerator deserved its own circuit breaker. I added a 15A circuit breaker and put the refrigerator on it. The problem now happens only when the refrigerator circuit breaker is on. It doesn’t matter whether the refrigerator is plugged in to its outlet or not. The problem remains that the GFCI outlet trips about 5 minutes after the EMS allows AC into the trailer.
I conclude that I must have developed a high-impedance leak to ground somewhere between the power panel and the refrigerator outlet. I have no clue how that’s related to washing the trailer.
I’m afraid that my next move is to run a new wire. Any other ideas on the diagnosis, or the next step? Has anyone else had a similar problem?
__________________
Gary & Peggy
2017 5.0 TA "Wandrin' Star"
2016 GMC Canyon Duramax
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04-19-2021, 08:26 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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The most likely culprit is the outlet for the fridge plug. Turn off the fridge breaker, pull the outlet, and replace it with a 15 Amp weather and tamper resistant outlet.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-T0W/202078774
The outlet for the fridge is exposed to outside moisture and can create a ground fault if it gets wet. The outlet Escape installs is a common type that is rated for indoor use only - not what you want for a fridge compartment.
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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04-20-2021, 07:48 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Haslet, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 174
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Tom,
You were exactly right. I managed to open the outlet and there was moisture inside. Now, with the outlet opened the GFCI does not trip.
Replacing the outlet will not be simple. It is just screwed into the wall with no electrical box, and there's only about 3 inches of wire coming out of the wall with no slack. And now with the refrigerator on its own circuit I can run it on propane if I have to and still charge my batteries. But, its clearly not perfect yet, so I'll see what I can do.
Thanks for your help.
__________________
Gary & Peggy
2017 5.0 TA "Wandrin' Star"
2016 GMC Canyon Duramax
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04-20-2021, 08:10 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ..., New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Esc19/'14 Silvrado
Posts: 4,193
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Your post had me scrambling for a picture of the frig outlet in my trailer. Quite amazing - can't see how any moisture could get to my fridge outlet.
__________________
Myron
"A billion here, a billion there...add it all up and before you know it you're talking real money." Everett Dirkson
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04-20-2021, 10:00 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Haslet, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 174
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Your installation looks much better.
Mine is right next to the outside, and has no box.
__________________
Gary & Peggy
2017 5.0 TA "Wandrin' Star"
2016 GMC Canyon Duramax
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04-20-2021, 10:05 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Haslet, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 174
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And the picture. This is the outlet with the back removed.
__________________
Gary & Peggy
2017 5.0 TA "Wandrin' Star"
2016 GMC Canyon Duramax
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04-20-2021, 12:05 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmchamplin
And the picture. This is the outlet with the back removed.
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I would replace the "outlet" you have with a standard box and outlet.
Here's a waterproof box that has mounting ears for an easy installation in the fridge compartment.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-1-Ga...Box/1000975662
Replacing the outlet you have with the Carlon box and the outlet below will solve the moisture problem such that you never have to deal with this again.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-T0W/202078774
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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04-20-2021, 12:44 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ..., New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Esc19/'14 Silvrado
Posts: 4,193
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Makes you wonder what's going on on the factory floor out there.
__________________
Myron
"A billion here, a billion there...add it all up and before you know it you're talking real money." Everett Dirkson
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04-20-2021, 02:03 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Weather resistant or not, I dislike those SCDs and wish Escape didn't use them. Give me a proper box. It's not nitpicking either. Had Escape used the right application for the outlet, the problem would not have happened.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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04-20-2021, 05:15 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmchamplin
Replacing the outlet will not be simple. It is just screwed into the wall with no electrical box, and there's only about 3 inches of wire coming out of the wall with no slack.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmchamplin
And the picture. This is the outlet with the back removed.
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Ah, the infamous Self-Contained Device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
Weather resistant or not, I dislike those SCDs and wish Escape didn't use them. Give me a proper box. It's not nitpicking either. Had Escape used the right application for the outlet, the problem would not have happened.
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I completely agree. I understand using them inside (although they're still undesirable), but not using them in this location. On the other hand, essentially every RV manufacturer uses conventional receptacles in refrigerator cabinets, and they should all be in outdoor boxes with while-in-use covers.
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04-21-2021, 09:10 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Haslet, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 174
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I decided that I really didn't need a wall-mounted outlet - just a place to plug in the refrigerator.
__________________
Gary & Peggy
2017 5.0 TA "Wandrin' Star"
2016 GMC Canyon Duramax
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04-21-2021, 10:21 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2018 Escape 19
Posts: 2,720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmchamplin
I decided that I really didn't need a wall-mounted outlet - just a place to plug in the refrigerator.
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With the limited wire available I was thinking that what you did would work as well.
However I would use a conduit clap around the plug body and screw it to the wall. This will keep it from wagging around on ruff roads and possibly stressing the solid core wire.
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04-21-2021, 10:51 AM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Springfield, Virginia
Trailer: Escape 19 (July 2018) pulled by F-150 (3.5 ecoboost)
Posts: 81
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I have this problem, too. When getting ready for a trip I would pull the trailer home from the storage lot, give it a good wash, and then plug it in to cool the fridge. Frustratingly, when the onboard EMS completed its test and clicked over to allow current to flow to the trailer the GFIC outlet at the house would immediately trip (no 10 minute delay for me). I suspected moisture was getting in somewhere but had not yet figured out where. My solution has been to delete the trailer wash from my trip preparation list and that has been working, though I don't like starting a trip with a dirty trailer. Problem solved, but not really.
Anyway, thank you all for identifying the likely culprit. I am pretty sure my fridge power outlet is mounted on the left wall of the compartment (though it could be on the floor). I'll examine it when I next have it home and will replace the existing outlet and box with one suited for outdoor use.
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John
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04-21-2021, 02:27 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Haslet, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggscape
However I would use a conduit clap around the plug body and screw it to the wall. This will keep it from wagging around on ruff roads and possibly stressing the solid core wire.
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Thanks for the great suggestion. I took it.
__________________
Gary & Peggy
2017 5.0 TA "Wandrin' Star"
2016 GMC Canyon Duramax
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04-21-2021, 02:27 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggscape
With the limited wire available I was thinking that what you did would work as well.
However I would use a conduit clap around the plug body and screw it to the wall. This will keep it from wagging around on ruff roads and possibly stressing the solid core wire.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmchamplin
Thanks for the great suggestion. I took it.
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Yes! Please secure the connector if that is what is being used as a device box.
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04-21-2021, 03:16 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Travelers
I suspected moisture was getting in somewhere but had not yet figured out where. My solution has been to delete the trailer wash from my trip preparation list and that has been working, though I don't like starting a trip with a dirty trailer. Problem solved, but not really.
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I agree with "not really". If a wash is causing problems then it is highly likely that a hard, driving rain during your trip could as well. Good luck with finding the culprit and putting a solution in place that works without compromises.
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04-21-2021, 04:31 PM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Springfield, Virginia
Trailer: Escape 19 (July 2018) pulled by F-150 (3.5 ecoboost)
Posts: 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
I agree with "not really". If a wash is causing problems then it is highly likely that a hard, driving rain during your trip could as well. Good luck with finding the culprit and putting a solution in place that works without compromises.
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Agreed. Thanks to this thread I now have a place to start and can work from there. Perhaps before replacing the electrical outlet I'll temporarily seal it off with some plastic and spray a bit of water around the area (not inside the compartment but outside as if I were washing it) and see if I can replicate the problem. And I truly hope that I can because I don't know what else to check. The trailer is sealed fairly well.
I am open to suggestions on where to look next.
-----
John
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